Ducati Monster Forum

Not sure this qualifies as "news," but Gigi Dall'Igna has put a new engine at the top of the list of revisions to the next Desmosedici.

“The first step is the engine and we hope to have it for the post-Valencia race test [in November]. It will still be a 90 degree engine, but will be smaller, will allow for better set-up and for us to get more from the tyres.”

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/206225/1/dalligna-new-engine-first-step-for-2015-ducati.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/206225/1/dalligna-new-engine-first-step-for-2015-ducati.html)

It feels a bit like confirmation of the speculation that the existing motor was simply too long & didn't allow proper weight distribution on the bike.

I wonder if the idea of the engine as a stressed member (as in the Panigale and in the MotoGP bike until Valentino put his foot down) is simply too poisonous to consider; if so, that's too bad as I thought the idea had a lot of merit, and the Panigale looks like it's starting to come around in WSBK.

How much taller is the Desmo system compared to the gas system? So over to pneumatics, or will Gigi redesign the Desmo system?

I'm thinking he's moving the same basic parts around to get it smaller in the direction they need it to be smaller.

A couple years ago they rolled the engine backward 20 degrees or so.
I remember Burgess saying they wanted more, but then the swingarm pivot and countershaft wouldn't be in the good spot.

I don't recall the Desmo heads being appreciably taller.
But I've got a moderately old MotoGP Technology book, I'll look to see what it's got.

I got that one too. I better take a look.

November...geez

I've got the Second Edition.
Didn't find any good revealing shots from directly side-on so I could scale off of wheels or the like.
There's both 990 and 800's in it as well.
If you've got the same edition and see something good, shout out a page #.


Yeah, that's a downer.
But.
Considering how many years the bike has been a pooch.
And that November 2014 is only ~1 year since Gigi came on board.
It's not a lot of time to figure out what he wants to do about the problem, create the design, and turn it into assembled parts ready to roll.
Considering that BS announced it's intention to leave in early May, I'm sure that consigned a lot of electrons to the scrap bin.

1st edition here. I got nothing except for Spalding saying they had issues with the tyre touching the head and radiator under braking.

The 2 main complaints have been understeer and power delivery. My concern is that just engine updates might not resolve the understeer issue.

I believe the theory is that because of the counter shaft location that the engine couldn't be moved back far enough to redistribute the weight to cure the understeer problem.

My reading between the lines is that a 'smaller' engine will allow them to move it to wherever it needs to be to fix the understeer.

We can only pray

as in...move it to a certified honda repair facility.

 [laugh]

that redesign came from one eyebrow hair. there's more wizardry to come i'm sure.

Plenty of eyebrow hair to go around  >:(

What do y'all think Ducati can do to reduce the engine length? 
That seems to be the main problem. (that and its height)
Too much weight up front...the front pushes...

Pneumatic valves?

I wouldn't put it past the walking eyebrow.

they'd have to quit calling calling it the desmosedici.

More info on what has been changed since Dall'Igna got his hands on it:

http://tinyurl.com/qfxhfq3 (http://tinyurl.com/qfxhfq3)

70mm -  :o

Page no longer available?

It'd be cheaper to lure Stoner out of retirement and let him slam the bike back and forth into turns.

That's a very comprehensive list of changes required.  Good link.
No wonder riders and teams got lost.

The page did drop out, shame.
Yeah, understeer? No worries kick the back out. :D

Motosprint broke the link and the article is gone, as far as I can tell.  [roll]

I've got a copy of it.
I'm checking on whether I can post it here without getting us in trouble.

New link to the article:

http://www.riderbike.it/forum/showthread.php?tid=1770 (http://www.riderbike.it/forum/showthread.php?tid=1770)

Mama Mia, that's hard to read!

GP15 not ready for Sepang 1 test


http://motomatters.com/news/2015/01/14/ducati_s_desmosedici_gp15_officially_del.html (http://motomatters.com/news/2015/01/14/ducati_s_desmosedici_gp15_officially_del.html)

I think Ducati is really looking forward to Michelin. They never really adapted to the Stones and they know that HRC and Yamaha will at least start at the same point. They will eventually get faster quicker, but at least at the very start they will be on a leveled playing field.

Wasn't it Rossi on the Yamaha/Michelin set up that was crying for the Bridgestones that Stoner was using on the Ducati? But that was back before spec tires too.

Yes, but like you said, it was before spec. tires. The B'stone was a different animal back then, and Ducati had the majority of the input into it's development, as hardly anyone else used them...and they were the only factory team on them. When it became the spec. tire, Honda and Yamaha got the majority of the input and Ducati was left out in the cold. At the time both Yamaha and Honda used aluminum twin spar frames, while Ducati was trying the carbon fiber frameless concept. No surprise that a tire developed for an aluminum twin spar frame didn't work as well for the CF concept.

I'm not sure that the CF frame came at the time that the spec tire was developed. I believe that came a year later, but Ducati was still on trellis IIRC. Your point is valid, HRC and Yamaha had the bulk of the input.

The Bridgestones became spec in 2009, the same year that Ducati introduced the CF monocoque frame. 2007 was when Stoner won the championship and 2008 was the limbo year (Duc has steel trellis for both of those).

Interestingly, in his autobiography Stoner said he thought the 2009 bike was the best one he had, they just needed to devote the proper resources to develop it, which they didn't.

Well considering that they were building it around his input, or at least as much input as they took from any rider, I would have presumed that he would have somewhat liked it.

Probably a lifelong "no criticism" clause in his contract  [evil]

Well gp15 looks a lot smaller...
Completely new, smaller engine, new chassis.

Hope it performs....

Speram ben!  ;D


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YVE8CFyuFww/VOHwVypvD0I/AAAAAAAAX0U/4ETjOFT2CHU/s2560/10-Ducati_MotGP_Team_2015_59_Iannone.jpg)

 [thumbsup]

Looks great. We'll see how she goes next week.

Akraporn!  [drool]

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-y3TccIYbHDc/VOHxCjwFntI/AAAAAAAAX0E/Wq88Jeimyjs/w1336-h892-no/5-Ducati_MotGP_Team_2015_64.jpg)

Wow split with Termi.

They split with Termi last year IIRC.

They coulda splurged for gloss clear. [roll]

It's a great looking bike, but that's never been an issue with the GPs

As usual, David Emmett is the must-read on the topic:

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/02/17/analyzing_the_ducati_desmosedici_gp15_sm.html (https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/02/17/analyzing_the_ducati_desmosedici_gp15_sm.html)

 [thumbsup] [thumbsup]

Just read the Emmett article.  Good read.  Key thing that came across to me was that it is noticeably shorter than the 14.3, which should help with the chronic understeer.  Lots of other little improvements that, at least as they were explained, sounded very good.

But in the end, MM is still alive and well so even in the absolute best case scenario where the Duc is finally on par with the jap badges, Divi and Iannone need to beat the most alien of aliens.

Well, MM does *occasionally* fall off during a race, so we can always hope that The Andreas^© can capitalize on that.

I don't see Dovi winning anything, other than the occasional race, mainly when others fall. He had his shot on a factory Honda. I think Crazy Joe has more potential.

Hope this isn't a derby:

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/02/17/ducati-team-unveils-new-gp15-motogp-racebike-for-2015/ (http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/02/17/ducati-team-unveils-new-gp15-motogp-racebike-for-2015/)

Andy2 ;D

I think this'll work, short Speedweek interview:

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedweek.com%2Fmotogp%2Fnews%2F71123%2FGigi-DallIgna-Jetzt-laeuft-es-bei-Ducati-anders.html&edit-text= (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.speedweek.com%2Fmotogp%2Fnews%2F71123%2FGigi-DallIgna-Jetzt-laeuft-es-bei-Ducati-anders.html&edit-text=)

As usual, MotoMatters has the best read out there on what we know (the GP15 is fast), what we don't (whether it can stay fast over race distance), and well informed speculation (winglets? again?) on pro motorcycle racing.

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/03/16/2015_motogp_qatar_test_day_2_round_up_th.html (https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/03/16/2015_motogp_qatar_test_day_2_round_up_th.html)