The bike has been acting funny all day, chugging at times. I was at a stoplight and the bike died. AI pushed it across the street onto the sidewalk. The dash lights light up, the fuel pump primes but it won't start. It only clicks and throws the engine light when I try to start it. I'm waiting for a flatbed now and will attach to the VDSTS when I get home and check for codes. I figured I'd start this thread to get your thoughts.
I did the valves recently but I know that's not the problem as I have done many valve adjustments without a hitch.
Thanks guys
FYI the battery is new
Sounds like a charging system problem.
Even though the battery is new start by full charge and load test. Then check charging system output. You want to see 13.5-14.5 volts across the battery at 3K RPM. Post back with your results.
I had similar symptoms about a week before my regulator/rectifier tried to melt me.
I think you guys are dead on, thanks.
Quote from: Buckethead on August 12, 2014, 07:19:34 PM
I had similar symptoms about a week before my regulator/rectifier tried to melt me.
Was your bike backfiring before your rec went out?
No more than usual, or at least not that I noticed.
I have on 06 Sport 1k with Boom Tubes. It's a bit loud.
Quote from: howie on August 12, 2014, 07:18:23 PM
Sounds like a charging system problem.
Even though the battery is new start by full charge and load test. Then check charging system output. You want to see 13.5-14.5 volts across the battery at 3K RPM. Post back with your results.
Load test results are 12.6 volts at 3k rpm. With everything off I got 12.9v, with the key turned I got 12.6v. I bought a used regulator on ebay from the same bike and year that had 4k miles on it. This rec/reg lasted me 53k miles. I hope the new one last me as long or longer (crossing fingers). Thanks for the help guys. [thumbsup]
Yup. R/R sounds like it's shot.
When I replaced mine, I went to Radio Shack and got some CPU heat sink compound and filled in the hollow on the bottom to help with heat transfer. I also mounted it to a chunk of aluminum for the same purpose.
They are a pretty "meh" design, but they're cheap and they work. For a while. Lots of people on here have had the same issue. Some relocate it to an area with better air flow to aid in cooling, others swap out for a MOSFET rectifier. Either way, most people wind up replacing one (or more) eventually.
Quote from: 2 Wheel Wanderer on August 13, 2014, 02:43:59 PM
Load test results are 12.6 volts at 3k rpm. With everything off I got 12.9v, with the key turned I got 12.6v. I bought a used regulator on ebay from the same bike and year that had 4k miles on it. This rec/reg lasted me 53k miles. I hope the new one last me as long or longer (crossing fingers). Thanks for the help guys. [thumbsup]
Before condemning the regulator more testing is needed. Go here for a "how to" http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide (http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide)
Before anything else check the connection where the three yellow stator wires connect to the regulator for corrosion and overheating and make sure your battery connections are clean and tight.
Quote from: howie on August 13, 2014, 07:03:12 PM
Before condemning the regulator more testing is needed. Go here for a "how to" http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide (http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide)
Before anything else check the connection where the three yellow stator wires connect to the regulator for corrosion and overheating and make sure your battery connections are clean and tight.
I got the new/used RR and all readings were the same. I can return this item within 14 days minus shipping
Battery connections are clean and tight. The wires on the RR side look good but the 3 yellow wires coming from the stator at the plug look kind of dark.
I did further testing with the fault finding chart. I got to the last test on B, switch Multi to AC Voltage and check the voltage on the stator between the 3 wires while grounding them to the engine casing. They all came out to be about 11 volts at 5k rpm. It seems the stator is the problem. Thoughts?
If you did the test correctly (and it sounds like you did) yes, but before buying a stator you could try cutting the stator wires back until you get to shiny copper and try again if you want to save money. Good place for stators: http://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/ (http://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/)
Not sure how you're measuring the AC voltage coming out of the stator.
If we call the 3 wires A, B, and C.
I measure the AC voltage between A-B, A-C, AND B-C.
Nothing grounded.
I will measure resistance between A, B, and C to the cases, to confirm that none of the windings are shorted to the armature.
Quote from: Speeddog on August 15, 2014, 08:09:32 PM
Not sure how you're measuring the AC voltage coming out of the stator.
If we call the 3 wires A, B, and C.
I measure the AC voltage between A-B, A-C, AND B-C.
Nothing grounded.
I will measure resistance between A, B, and C to the cases, to confirm that none of the windings are shorted to the armature.
Dang, how did I miss that. "grounding them to the engine casing is wrong". I like Speeddog's ABC explanation. Simple and clear [thumbsup]
After starting at the begging of the fault finding diagram I ended up on the last page doing these two tests.
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/ducaccia/Capture5.jpg) (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/ducaccia/media/Capture5.jpg.html)
The 1st one yealded .07ohms if I remember correctly.
The 2nd one is what Speeddog is describing. All three readings were at 11volts at 5K rpm.
Ill go ahead and strip the wires back a bit and make sure everything is nice and shiny before putting everything back together.
Output is stator wire to stator wire. Follow what Speeddog says. Either in your mind or by labeling call one wire A, one B and one C. As Speeddog says, " measure the AC voltage between A-B, A-C, AND B-C."
Quote from: howie on August 15, 2014, 08:48:00 PM
Output is stator wire to stator wire. Follow what Speeddog says. Either in your mind or by labeling call one wire A, one B and one C. As Speeddog says, " measure the AC voltage between A-B, A-C, AND B-C."
Yup, that's exactly what I did. With the bike running I put the multi into AB - 5k rpm I got 11 volts instead of 50. Then took A out and put it in C, BC got 11 volts at 5k rpm. Took B out and went to A. AC got 11k volts at 5k rpm.
I'm about to take out the 3 yellow wires from their plug on the stator side to inspect.
Edit: All three yellow stator output wires have been checked. They were clean, nothing burnt. I cleaned all connections with electrical cleaner anyway. I'll do the tests again tomorrow but I don't expect anything to change.
If you're getting 11 volts AC between A-B-C at 5k rpm, the stator is sacked, or wires compromised.
A-B-C to case (engine off) are what? in ohms.
If it was .07 ohms, the wire(s) are shorted to the armature.
Question for you guys. When checking the AC voltage from the stator should the RR be disconnected? Should I be testing ABC contacts from the disconnected plug?
Edit: I found my answer (unplug the stator), I will retest today and post back up.
Edit # 2: Checked voltage again. I got 38 volts twice and 50volts once checking AB, BC, CA. Checking the Ohms I got 1.3, 1.1 and .6. I also got an ohms reading from all three wires when I grounded them.
No bueno. I do have a stator on order with a 30 day return policy.
"Well there's your problem!!!"
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/ducaccia/20140820_203925635_iOS.jpg) (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/ducaccia/media/20140820_203925635_iOS.jpg.html)
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/ducaccia/20140820_203911220_iOS.jpg) (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/ducaccia/media/20140820_203911220_iOS.jpg.html)
New stator going in [thumbsup]
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/ducaccia/20140820_202022334_iOS.jpg) (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/ducaccia/media/20140820_202022334_iOS.jpg.html)
I just have to button it up. Thanks again for the help guys!
Can anyone explain what might cause this kind of failure? Is it a manufacturing defect that finally got bad enough to completely fail? Or some other weak point in the electrical system that cause some sort of stator overload?
No, but it I am guessing a short to ground. I would be curious to see what the stator wires look like where they bolt to the cover.
A few years back I had a problem on a trip where the bike got really hot at the end of riding one day, >300 degrees which was not normal at all. Soon after that the clearances on my exhaust valves went to zero which gave me running problems obviously. I got everything fixed and got the bike running well again but always had a vibrations at high RPM's after that. It's possible my stator problem started then. I cant be sure but I think it caused high rpm fueling problems, just my theory, I could be completely wrong.
Lately the bike has started backfiring and crapping out a little, the beginning of the end.
I ran the bike today and took it around the block quickly. The throttle response is much better and the bike runs much smoother. I am going out for a ride afternoon and will post back up.
In the meantime here are some pics that may help Howie see what he was asking for. FYI the wires between the stator up to the connector were clean and the part that was most fried was pointing forward.
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/ducaccia/20140821_205307276_iOS.jpg) (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/ducaccia/media/20140821_205307276_iOS.jpg.html)
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/ducaccia/20140821_204958456_iOS.jpg) (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/ducaccia/media/20140821_204958456_iOS.jpg.html)
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh92/ducaccia/20140821_205015283_iOS.jpg) (http://s254.photobucket.com/user/ducaccia/media/20140821_205015283_iOS.jpg.html)
Vibration still there, oh well.
WOW!! My throttle response is back! The bike is a 1000 times smoother!!! It hasn't felt this good in years!
Edit: I just got home, 95 miles of twisty fun!!
Some observations with the old stator.
1. Bike lacking power especially at the top of the RPM range
2. Engine running lean for the last month or so, lots of popping
3. Engine has been really grabby/choppy and almost rough running
4. on/off throttle really bad
5. Towards the end the engine would cut out at times - from a stop usually
6. Bike started to idle badly
7. Recently the temperature would fluctuate between normal and 20-25 degrees higher then normal.
New stator, all of that bullshit gone!! The bike runs how it used to.
I said it before but I'll say it again, thanks for the help!
i've had a few 2002 onward 2v monsters that have had quite large voltage drops between battery and the injector/coil/fuel pump circuit. like 2v. combine that with a bad charge voltage and it can be a real issue. i've been trying to find a neat way to jump into the injector/coil/fuel pump relay trigger, but it's been a cut and join. i have to do one tomorrow so i'm going to remove the relay and plug a wire into the base for the trigger and mount another relay switching battery power to the horizontal coil (seems to affect the horizontal coil the most) and into the injector/coil/fuel pump power wire at the relay base. no matter how hard i try, i can't get the terminals out of the relay mount block.
might run an extra earth to the front coil too, just to make sure of that.
also they can get a decent voltage drop between regulator and battery. i make a little external loom using the original 4 pin connector at the reg (2 red, 2 black) and run it back through the maxi fuse (new terminals, pull the originals out and heatshrink the still powered one) to the battery. you end up with a few extra ring terminals at the battery, but you can pick up 0.5 to 1V in charge voltage at the battery.
the bike i have to do tomorrow is a pretty rough 2002 m900ie, and i'm deep into the "it was ok until you touched it" syndrome after servicing it last week.