Asking the knowledgable here.
What are the differences? Including MTS and HM models as well as the Monsters. I understand the 1100 MTS only came as DS models, but were wet clutch.
Cheers.
Mts and hm are narrow cases
All 1100 Hypers are dry clutch, whether Evo or DS, so the only dry clutch Evo motor is in the Hyper1100Evo.
I know the intake ports are bigger on the evo engine. I have heard the cams are the 1100 ds dp spec but do not know 100% on that
asaik ( which isnt much)
the 1100DS motor is dry clutch in most cases, and is nothing more than a 1000 motor with bigger piston.
the 1100EVO motor is single spark, is only dry clutch in the HM, otherwise wet clutch, has lighter flywheel and timing gear. the timing sensor is also located at a diff location and is a different size as well. the cases are also made using a new vaccum method that makes it lighter and thinner( there is a significant weight savings on the EVO motor cases compared to the 1100).
It also has a different cam profile then the 1100DS does.
it also has composite material valve covers instead of aluminum.
Quote from: He Man on September 21, 2015, 09:43:54 AM
asaik ( which isnt much)
LOL, "isn't much" . Says the guy who fit an 1100evo motor in an s2r.
You probably know an order of magnitude more than the service personnel at my local dealership.
im just a wrench monkey slapping shit together lol
i dont know shit.
I don't think i ever told the whole story of how i came about that motor, but basically, i bought it off a drunk on the street without knowing if it was going to fit for not. He was heavily heavily drunk. The thing was sitting inside his jetski which was in a small ass garage at his mothers place in brooklyn. I paid a song for it and it wasnt even ready for its 600 mile service, ended up fitting pretty nicely.
Quote from: caperix on September 21, 2015, 08:49:26 AM
I know the intake ports are bigger on the evo engine. I have heard the cams are the 1100 ds dp spec but do not know 100% on that
According to the bikeboy cam chart, Evo cams have more lift and duration than the DS cams. The DP cams appear similar but a little different.
Quote from: He Man on September 21, 2015, 01:18:48 PM
im just a wrench monkey slapping shit together lol
i dont know shit.
I don't think i ever told the whole story of how i came about that motor, but basically, i bought it off a drunk on the street without knowing if it was going to fit for not. He was heavily heavily drunk. The thing was sitting inside his jetski which was in a small ass garage at his mothers place in brooklyn. I paid a song for it and it wasnt even ready for its 600 mile service, ended up fitting pretty nicely.
Pretty tough jetski motor. [evil]
1100 Evo has just two spark plugs.
Whereas 1100 Dual Spark does not.
Weird .
;)
;D
I think the DS with its heavier flywheel and innards will be smoother and easier to roll along at lower speeds is my guess. The light internals of the Evo, based on my riding experience of my Hyper (assuming the internals are lightened like the Evo M1100), are almost too much of a good thing. You can feel how instantly it spins up with corresponding engine braking. Certainly potentially very on/off riding requiring good throttle control at lower speeds. Great when going for it, but not so good in slow traffic. It leaves a narrow tuning margin for 1/4 and less throttle.
.... you ride my DS Monster...
I'll ride your Evo Hyper...
and then we'll both know [thumbsup]
Or at least have an informed opinion.
all care, no responsibility
Quote from: Raux on September 21, 2015, 04:15:58 AM
Mts and hm are narrow cases
Sooo...
HM1100 engine is not the same as M1100 engine?
DS or Evo ??
Good plan. We can conduct a vigorous testing regime.
The rear section of the cases comes between frame supports for a sturdy structure iirc according to Speeddog and Duckstew posts about frame and motor compatibilty. They know the details.
The swingarm pivot is encapsulated within the frame structure so the cases at the pivot are narrow enough to fit. It must give extra strength like the SBKs which is also useful for multi stradas. ;D
Quote from: koko64 on September 22, 2015, 05:46:06 AM
;D
I think the DS with its heavier flywheel and innards will be smoother and easier to roll along at lower speeds is my guess. The light internals of the Evo, based on my riding experience of my Hyper (assuming the internals are lightened like the Evo M1100), are almost too much of a good thing. You can feel how instantly it spins up with corresponding engine braking. Certainly potentially very on/off riding requiring good throttle control at lower speeds. Great when going for it, but not so good in slow traffic. It leaves a narrow tuning margin for 1/4 and less throttle.
I totally concur. The EVO motor picks up like a BEAST. I mean that is trying to go into the future. Mine is fully tuned out and with a 14/51 gearing (-1 front and +1 rear) its still pretty twitchy low speed.
When I had my DR650, the rideability of the monster in urban traffic really evident and riding them back to back revealed how unpleasant of a ride the monster really is.
a heavier flywheel would soften the hit, but the DS1000 motor case covers is narrower, so i dont think the flywheel would swap over.
Its not the fastest bike out there, but it sure wants to get ridden like it is.
Someone mentioned that the Evo has improved cooling. Did the factory go back to oil cooled cylinder barrels?
Ung, when we swap bikes, we can each write our respective impressions here. Gotta organize that run.
For a Monster there are only two Ducati 1100 engine versions around that have the correct swingarmssetup.
M1100DS 2009 - 2010
M1100 EVO 2011 - 2013
Both of them share the newer Vacural tech casing and Siemens ECU.
M1100DS have dry clutch
M1100 EVO have wet clutch with a slipper function.
Special cams that are inbetween the old stock and DP,
Lighter flywheel and alternator.
New head with better cooling and single sparkplug.
Higher compression with new piston. Lighter gearbox.
The other Ducati 1100 engines around do not have the correct swingarmssetup.
HYM1100DS, HYM1100EVO - all dry clutch and MTS1100DS - wet clutch
But there are other alternatives.
M1000, S2R1000, 1000SS, - all dry clutch
Sport Classic - early dry clutch later wet clutch
GT1000 - wet clutch
they all have the correct swingarmssetup
and all you need to add is a pair of 1100 cylinders with pistons :-)
Note that I would not recommend to try to run these with Siemens ECU since it would require a
one-off timimg gear to be made.
MTS1000 - early dry clutch later wet clutch do not have the correct swingarmssetup.
All engines 1000/1100 have the same gearbox ratio, primary drive ratio, valve size, TB size.
Summary of things to watch out for when you change the engine on a Monster
M696 M796 bike Siemens ECU
M1100DS / EVO engine
Just minor issue such as header and twin spark ignition coil
Monster "ST" -02 --> Marelli 59M / 5AM ECU
M1100DS / EVO engine
Change timing gear, front valve cover to one with temp sensor.
Monster "888" -00 -- 01 Marelli 15M ECU
M1100DS / EVO engine
Change timing gear, front valve cover to one with temp sensor and the spacer behind the front sprocket. (5mm shorter)
M696 M796 bike Siemens ECU
M1000 S2R1000 1000SS Sport Classic GT1000 engine
Major issue since the engine do not have the timing sensor in the engine casing. So a one-off timing gear will have to be fabricated. Engine temp sensor will also have to be solved.
Monster "ST" -02 --> Marelli 59M / 5AM ECU
M1000 S2R1000 1000SS Sport Classic GT1000 engine
Just minor issue such as header and twin spark ignition coil
Monster "888" -00 -- 01 Marelli 15M ECU
M1000 S2R1000 1000SS Sport Classic GT1000 engine
Just minor issue such as header and twin spark ignition coil and the spacer behind the front sprocket. (5mm shorter)
Note that the 1000SS engine have the shorter spacer behind the front sprocket.
Quote from: koko64 on September 22, 2015, 09:07:19 PM
Someone mentioned that the Evo has improved cooling. Did the factory go back to oil cooled cylinder barrels?
No it is only the head that have improved oil cooling. The head even have "fins" inside where the cam is, on top of the combustion chamber.
Thanks hn. Cheers.
Some useful info there from hn [thumbsup]
Quote from: koko64 on September 26, 2015, 02:44:14 AM
Ung, when we swap bikes, we can each write our respective impressions here. Gotta organize that run.
Looking forward to it [thumbsup]
Nice weather this weekend, eh 8) I'm gonna go [Dolph] tomorrow while everybody else is watching the GF. Roads to myself I'll have ;)
Got to ride an MTS1100 DS this week and it really compared differently to my Hyper Evo.
The heavier internals made the engine response smoother and gentle in comparison to the Evo motor in my Hyper. You can really feel the difference in flywheel weight making the DS motor more civilized at low speeds. While the MTS builds speed in a predictable way to reach a very strong midrange, the Evo motored Hyper explodes off the mark quite savagely if you have poor throttle control. Not surprising as it also has lightening holes on all the timing and primary gears.
I need to mention that the MTS was pretty stock with a Staintune exhaust from the cat back to the mufflers. It was very smooth with no surging so I guess it had a reflash too. It is a heavier bike than the feather weight Hyper, but quite light for a touring machine.
A good comparison will be Ungs M1100S DS with more similar mods.
Been talking to He Man who put an 1100Evo motor in his S2R. He put it in a nutshell when he likened the DS and Evo to "enduro" and "MX" versions of the same motor.
The problem I have with my EVO motor is that it pulls so hard off the bottom end that you expect this beastly powerband throughout.
You're unfortunately let down with a power fizzle out at higher revs.
Until I got used to it, I kept banging off the limiter expecting more. It doesn't help that the stupid dash goes farther than the redline (by 3k rpm). Its like the exact opposite of the original oversquare 1099 superquadro motor.
I love my Hypers fierce motor. Mods that give 100+ hp/80+ ft/lbs torque make it an excellent street bike.
The vivid acceleration means you can street ride with buddies on SBK's and keep up. Want to cruise, then snick up two gears and run in the closed loop map.
You do learn throttle control however.