so if I get termis, should I go full system or slipons? I am concerned if I get pulled over and I have no cat convertor I will be in the sh*t in a big way... any thoughts? Can you get a hi-flow cat? I had these on my cars but not too sure about bikes?
cheers
Depends on your location, but I kept my Cat from my S2R so incase I get pulled over I can put it back on, get the inspection done, then wait a few weeks, and take it back off again.
I always thought it was the noise and not the pollution that the police were concerned with?
+1 on keeping the leftover parts...that's what the big red Ducati Performance box is for that the exhaust comes in - hides the 17 kg of stock exhaust well!
I noticed with getting rid of the Cat on mine made it a little noisier, but not much, I still have everything else stock.
But the udder is an ugly bastard of a thing! they have smaller design's, like what is fitted to the Tard and the sport's tourers, and yet to the Monsters they fit that ugly big thing!
But I am slowly paying off a full Termi/ECU/Air filter kit, then we'll make some real noise! [cheeky]
When it's done it'll almost be better than [bacon] [thumbsup]
so the udder is both an expansion chamber and the cat I guess then?
So there isn't anyone running a hiflow cat with their full exhaust to match emissions regs (has anyone even heard of one?). Only reason I ask is that the fines for removal or coring of a catalytic convertor are quite extravagant in NSW. I know all the big mod car guys I used to roll with where always concerned about being caught without a cat since the RTA considered it a very serious offence.
Anyone know the actual fine / details?
Quote from: Spider on July 17, 2008, 04:21:36 AM
I always thought it was the noise and not the pollution that the police were concerned with?
+1 on keeping the leftover parts...that's what the big red Ducati Performance box is for that the exhaust comes in - hides the 17 kg of stock exhaust well!
If you happen to get pulled in ny the "Roadworthy" squad you'll likely get grief from them as they are more than likely going to have the EPA fellas with them. Then you are likely to get the "Fooling with the emissions system" monetary donation etc. Normally all the normal Plods will be interested in will be the racket. (Read: sweet noise for us ;D)
well i just ordered all my open clutch bits to add some noise :) will have to see about coring stock cans next... until the termi moola is all saved anyway!
you could also get the CC ceramic coated black to 'hide' it - I'm trying to pressure DosVerde into the same thing...I am the 'peer group pressure' that your parents warned you about in adolescence!
Spider
Unfortunately the "The noise keeps me safe by waking up the sleeping numbnuts allegedly in control of the vehicle Officer!!" doesnt usually cut the mustard. :(
Even if it IS true. ;D
Quote from: Spider on July 17, 2008, 04:21:36 AM
I always thought it was the noise and not the pollution that the police were concerned with?
+1 on keeping the leftover parts...that's what the big red Ducati Performance box is for that the exhaust comes in - hides the 17 kg of stock exhaust well!
removel of the cat here is a red card here [leo]
as the guys all said I think the RTA is more interested in pinging people for noise emissions rather than carbon/exhaust emissions. I have my 803 with the cat off and and cored cans (you can hear the bike from blocks away) but its been getting a custom exhaust, powercommander and open airbox fitted this week, hoping for more of a rumble. I loved the termi sound but sparks look better so i went with something in between but as spider said mod it and keep the leftovers just incase.
Quote from: Spider on July 17, 2008, 05:20:00 PM
you could also get the CC ceramic coated black to 'hide' it - I'm trying to pressure DosVerde into the same thing...I am the 'peer group pressure' that your parents warned you about in adolescence!
Spider
Yeah, I'm getting closer to a decision, if someone could lend me a bike for a couple of weeks I would probably get it done, can you "peer group" that for me? ;D - Did you say the coaters were in Coburg Spider?
In regard to the original post, I had a bit of a Google and found this article: http://www.smh.com.au/news/News/Scooting-stars/2005/06/02/1117568351566.html
Specifically the bit that says..."There is one area Australian rules don't cover - exhaust emissions - and the federal Department of Transport and Regional Services seems to be in no hurry to change that."
Looking between the lines of the Australian Design Rules's, there are only emissions laws for Heavy and Light vehicles. Motorcycles are not covered in the definition of either of these categories. Might I just add, this is all my own interpretation (usual disclaimer).
Having said that, This is a brief breakdown of the Heavy and Light vehicles ADR rules and how they relate to 2 wheeled vehicles, have a look at what is applicable to LC category vehicles (what we ride).
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/files/ADR_Applicability_Summary-L-Group_July_2008.pdfSo,
So in short, I don't think we have to have them, the manufacturers just stick them on to be nice to the environment, and I assume they have to have them in Europe. I don't think you will have any issues kursed [moto] Maybe we can get Bazz to test it out in Tassie for us [clap]
- and as I said earlier, this is just my interpretation of it ;) I am no expert in the field.
Quote from: kursed on July 17, 2008, 04:55:55 PM
so the udder is both an expansion chamber and the cat I guess then?
So there isn't anyone running a hiflow cat with their full exhaust to match emissions regs (has anyone even heard of one?). Only reason I ask is that the fines for removal or coring of a catalytic convertor are quite extravagant in NSW. I know all the big mod car guys I used to roll with where always concerned about being caught without a cat since the RTA considered it a very serious offence.
Anyone know the actual fine / details?
As far as I know no one gives a stuff about catatlytic converters south of the Murray.... Your EPA guys up there must be feral.... Some of my mates got done over up there a few years back for removing the "UNLEADED FUEL ONLY" stickers!!!!!
Ita
thats all very interesting... I would never in a mil had thought that the RTA / EPA wouldn't be bothered by the removal of a cat on a motor vehicle. Lol.
Quote from: kursed on July 17, 2008, 11:34:35 PM
thats all very interesting... I would never in a mil had thought that the RTA / EPA wouldn't be bothered by the removal of a cat on a motor vehicle. Lol.
they care about revenue destruction only, don't worry bout the planet!
Quote from: Ita on July 17, 2008, 10:21:25 PM
As far as I know no one gives a stuff about catatlytic converters south of the Murray.... Your EPA guys up there must be feral.... Some of my mates got done over up there a few years back for removing the "UNLEADED FUEL ONLY" stickers!!!!!
Ita
Mate, don't go posting that - it took me a month to convince Madalf to remove the "WARNING: Exhaust gets hot" sticker from his rear cowl...he'll be ringing up wanting back if he hears this!
:D
Quote from: kursed on July 17, 2008, 03:08:45 AM
so if I get termis, should I go full system or slipons? I am concerned if I get pulled over and I have no cat convertor I will be in the sh*t in a big way... any thoughts? Can you get a hi-flow cat? I had these on my cars but not too sure about bikes?
cheers
I have a straight race system on mine and have been stopped many times for random Breath testing, the only comment I have had about my monster is
"nice bike you have there, can you count 2 ten for me please sir "I seems like they think all ducati’s are noisy just like a Harley's it doesn’t seem 2 worry them 2 much. many a times I have been tailed by them with no problems [thumbsup]
IMO I don’t think the Monster fits the rat bag unlicensed stereo types they look for and doesn’t attract 2 much attention
the thing is, cats have been on cars for years, and the roadside checks look for them cause they know they're supposed to be there and they're easy to see. on bikes however, cats have been mandatory in oz for only the last few years, my 03 S4R had one fitted but because it wasn't mandatory at the time i removed it and haven't had a problem since. "most" coppers and even the transport dept people don't know exactly when it became compulsory to have them fitted, nor do they really know what they're looking for. on monsters it's big and ugly and easy to see, on most bikes it's in the collector or muffler assembly and not easy to spot, so unless you are really unlucky and get a bike nut/epa nazi in one you should be fine.
as to the "unleaded fuel only" farce in NSW, i got done in ballina a few years ago and it cost me $160 and i nearly had to ride back there with a new sticker in place.
paul.
Quote from: DosVerde on July 17, 2008, 09:34:00 PM
Yeah, I'm getting closer to a decision, if someone could lend me a bike for a couple of weeks I would probably get it done, can you "peer group" that for me? ;D - Did you say the coaters were in Coburg Spider?
In regard to the original post, I had a bit of a Google and found this article: http://www.smh.com.au/news/News/Scooting-stars/2005/06/02/1117568351566.html
Specifically the bit that says..."There is one area Australian rules don't cover - exhaust emissions - and the federal Department of Transport and Regional Services seems to be in no hurry to change that."
Looking between the lines of the Australian Design Rules's, there are only emissions laws for Heavy and Light vehicles. Motorcycles are not covered in the definition of either of these categories. Might I just add, this is all my own interpretation (usual disclaimer).
Having said that, This is a brief breakdown of the Heavy and Light vehicles ADR rules and how they relate to 2 wheeled vehicles, have a look at what is applicable to LC category vehicles (what we ride).
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/files/ADR_Applicability_Summary-L-Group_July_2008.pdfSo,
So in short, I don't think we have to have them, the manufacturers just stick them on to be nice to the environment, and I assume they have to have them in Europe. I don't think you will have any issues kursed [moto] Maybe we can get Bazz to test it out in Tassie for us [clap]
- and as I said earlier, this is just my interpretation of it ;) I am no expert in the field.
i cant speek for other sates but last year there was a big crack down here mainly bike gangs , but its not the cops its the transport inspectors , the police are not trained in opperating a noise meter or up with adr laws but the laws here do state and are enfoced that if your car, bike came out with a cat it must not be removed , so under this new anti hoon laws if the police think its to noisey they they put a canary on and then you have to go to a transport inspection station so just keep every thing in case you get pulled over [thumbsup]
fark it - full system then :)
Quote from: kursed on July 18, 2008, 02:19:11 PM
fark it - full system then :)
that's the spirit! ;D
paul. [thumbsup]
I took it for its first solid thrash today through the nasho and up to mac pass, absolutely stellar. I love the handling of this bike, and the torque kept the R6 and the buell I was with on a tight leash :) Def. needs pipes though. I keep hitting the bloody rev limiter, coming from an R6, I am used to winding it out to 15000rpm through each gear... oops. Could do with a bigger tank too, 150kms before reserve light comes on? gimme a break..... ???
Quote from: kursed on July 18, 2008, 09:16:32 PM
Could do with a bigger tank too, 150kms before reserve light comes on? gimme a break..... ???
PCIII custom map for each cylinder and make that 220km before light.....
Ita
come again? little bit more info if you perlease sir... :)
What u ride kursed?
in normal driving kursed im getting 240 kays be fore light comes on but i can only get that with 98 ron fuel if you ride on the rev limiter you wont get much , what you need to learn is yous your torque on the s2r you maximum torque at 6 grand so reving any higher is a waste of time just change gear then youll see what the monster can really do
Quote from: bazz20 on July 19, 2008, 04:35:04 PM
in normal driving kursed im getting 240 kays be fore light comes on but i can only get that with 98 ron fuel if you ride on the rev limiter you wont get much , what you need to learn is yous your torque on the s2r you maximum torque at 6 grand so reving any higher is a waste of time just change gear then youll see what the monster can really do
but boy can you have fun getting it to 6,000!
Bazz, what happens to your's if you put 92/95 octane in it?
i'm riding an s2r 1000. Maybe my fuel consumption is different to the other monsters... I am sure some of the smaller capacity monsters are better on fuel economy.
I took some pics of her this morn finally, i'll post them up shortly. Gave her a super clean too. Those bloody white wheels though... OMG! Impossible to keep clean for more than 10 mins.... at the end of each ride they are covered with black grease from the chain. I cleaned the hell out of the chain and oiled it oh so lightly but it still flicks gunk onto it. I hit it with this carnuba wax cleaner and it seems to wipe off much easier now each time with the wax base on the rims, but man am I going through the rags... might have to clean out the gf's closet soon too for some more ahhaha
Quote from: Spider on July 19, 2008, 05:27:03 PM
but boy can you have fun getting it to 6,000!
Bazz, what happens to your's if you put 92/95 octane in it?
hi spider on normal unleaded 91 it surges and runs to lean - pre detination , 95 runs ok but only 190 kays to a tank , 98 ron luvs the stuff fuel economy up to 240 befor light comes on no surges ,front wheel is easier to get up , torque is better, thats probley why it says 96 or better in the manual ive also done a little trick to the computer to boost torque , ever wondered why you have more power when bike is cold simple the computer runs the bike ritcher, when bikes warms up they run leener, well we all know that well running a higher octane fuel will burn cleaner ( if the compression ratio is right ) so the o2 sensor will read this and richern the mixture more so you get more power , now you can even richern a bit more by by tricking the computer into think that the air its breathing on is colder than what it really is and the easyest way to do that is run a littel chip which has a higher resistance than the normal air temp sensor so the difference between the air temp sensor and o2 sensor is mutch more , so the computter think its very cold and richerns the mix evern more more power and a lot more toque cheers bazz
yeah Bazz, thats what the 992ds engine needs - more torque! :P
least your front tyre won't need replacing!
Kursed - if the full is available - go for it!
well its wether you want torque or horse power , if horse power the go ,go with full system and ecu if you want torque just core yuor cans and leave the cat , those around here that have full system complained about loosing torque , just somthing to think about , thats why i bought an s2r and not s4r for the torque
Sorry to thread jack
I picked up my 1000Sie after having the computer replaced, after taking it for a ride I noticed that if I geared down and then held the throttle just of idle then the exhaust would start popping. It didn't do it with the original computer. I asked my brother in-law and he seems to think that the bike is running to lean, does that sound right.
yep, when I installed my ecu on my 1000s, it popped and crackled awfully. very lean was the diagnosis.
put the covered airbox (which should enrich the system and got it down to the shop for trimming!).
[perhaps an end to the threadjack....but perhaps not]
Quote from: The Don on July 19, 2008, 11:07:42 PM
Sorry to thread jack
I picked up my 1000Sie after having the computer replaced, after taking it for a ride I noticed that if I geared down and then held the throttle just of idle then the exhaust would start popping. It didn't do it with the original computer. I asked my brother in-law and he seems to think that the bike is running to lean, does that sound right.
get the bike to ho ever fixed it fast , if you have any mods tell them they shouldve ask you in the first place and did a test with the computer hooked up to see how it was running but they can only change the ecu slightly , sounds like the rong ecu bazz
Thanks Ill ring them tomorrow
Quote from: bazz20 on July 19, 2008, 09:37:19 PM
ive also done a little trick to the computer to boost torque , ever wondered why you have more power when bike is cold simple the computer runs the bike ritcher, when bikes warms up they run leener, well we all know that well running a higher octane fuel will burn cleaner ( if the compression ratio is right ) so the o2 sensor will read this and richern the mixture more so you get more power , now you can even richern a bit more by by tricking the computer into think that the air its breathing on is colder than what it really is and the easyest way to do that is run a littel chip which has a higher resistance than the normal air temp sensor so the difference between the air temp sensor and o2 sensor is mutch more , so the computter think its very cold and richerns the mix evern more more power and a lot more toque cheers bazz
Gedday Bazz....
Interesting theroy, but it goes against a couple of accepted tuning laws....
1. When it's cold, you get more power because the air is much denser. More air = more power. Bit like the science behind a supercharger or a cold airbox.
2. When you tune a motor on a dyno, the most horsepower is found as you lean the motor out not enrichen it. Horsepower plunges as you richen the mixture as that causes poor combustion!!!
So unless your motor was really lean to start with, a higher fuel/air ratio wont net more power
Ita
Quote from: Ita on July 20, 2008, 02:16:19 PM
Gedday Bazz....
Interesting theroy, but it goes against a couple of accepted tuning laws....
1. When it's cold, you get more power because the air is much denser. More air = more power. Bit like the science behind a supercharger or a cold airbox.
2. When you tune a motor on a dyno, the most horsepower is found as you lean the motor out not enrichen it. Horsepower plunges as you richen the mixture as that causes poor combustion!!!
So unless your motor was really lean to start with, a higher fuel/air ratio wont net more power
Ita
right you are ita youll get no arguments here but these bikes run better with a custom map why cause the custom lets one thing happen longer opening times for the fuel injectors , so we know that they run very leen leener than they should so if you make the engine ritcher more power easy and how do i know this because of a dyno and reading the voltage of the co2 censor my little tricks have got me 12 more poneys with only cored cans another strange thing that has been found by the boys at sport rider motor cycles is taking the cat of you lost torque regards bazz
Hey Bazz,
I'm interested in what you say about the local [leo] coming down on riders who remove their cats.
I had mine removed earlier this year but I'm still running the standard cans. Its louder but not as loud as it could be.
I've never even been pulled up so I can't say the lack of a cat has come to anyones attention. If I get asked I'll just say this is how it came. [roll]
so does anyone know the proper part numbers for the full system to suit an 06 s2r 1000? I can only find a partial system for the s2r 1000 (pipes that connect to the cat only). Hopefully having the correct details will allow me to confirm the exact kit i'd need to suit when buying from OS. don't want to have to ship it back if I got it wrong considering its upwards of $200 shipped
hi techno youll proberly never have any trouble only if you get a yellow sticker for undue noise , the problem came from a fella that got fined in melbourne for undue noise from the [leo] so he took it to court and won because the local [leo] are not trained in the use and dont have a degree in noise so the [leo] saying hes bike was too loud they had no real proof only say so ,when they brought in this anti hoon legalisation it covered this prob so if they think your bike,car is to noisey of you go to a inspection station , in saying that i no a couple of [leo] and asked them about this ,with cored canns they dont have a problem with as i keep to the speed limits around town not go reving and roaring ,they use this law to mainly harass the harleys , but in saying that i would remove my cat to except have found it mucks up the o2 sencor and you lose a little torque , talking to people a lot smarter than me for an o2 cencor to work properly they need to be a certain size and i no im get fined cause i cant help myself cheers bazz
Quote from: kursed on July 20, 2008, 08:03:40 PM
so does anyone know the proper part numbers for the full system to suit an 06 s2r 1000? I can only find a partial system for the s2r 1000 (pipes that connect to the cat only). Hopefully having the correct details will allow me to confirm the exact kit i'd need to suit when buying from OS. don't want to have to ship it back if I got it wrong considering its upwards of $200 shipped
when you say full kit do you mean ecu as well
http://www.ducati.com/shop/category.jsp?catid=cat960130 (http://www.ducati.com/shop/category.jsp?catid=cat960130)
and headers if wanted:
http://www.ducati.com/shop/category.jsp?catid=cat960129 (http://www.ducati.com/shop/category.jsp?catid=cat960129)
I think I'm helping here...
Quote from: Spider on July 20, 2008, 08:28:52 PM
http://www.ducati.com/shop/category.jsp?catid=cat960130 (http://www.ducati.com/shop/category.jsp?catid=cat960130)
and headers if wanted:
http://www.ducati.com/shop/category.jsp?catid=cat960129 (http://www.ducati.com/shop/category.jsp?catid=cat960129)
I think I'm helping here...
thanks spider my book doesnt have a full kit , thats somthing i did not know is the duc cat eliminter is only mild steel not stainless
thanks guys. thats great. so a full system seems to be the cat eliminator + the slipon kit as linked above.
ah, when I said I'm trying, I meant - this is what DP recommends or has - as far as the header goes....well, I believe you can get other brands, sil-moto, QD? and Marving. I don't have a S2R so haven't done a heap of research on this...
Monsterparts Marving header (http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/M0119DT2/Exhaust/M0119DT2.html)
Moto wheels QD midpipe (http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=660%7CDucati%20Exhaust&productID=5254&showDetail=1&categoryID=671%7CMonster%20Exhaust&vendoridtodisplay=0&filterFor=&collection=168%7CEuropean%20Motorcycle%20Parts)
I think you need to do more research buying laying down he plastic! [evil]