Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: lipski24 on May 31, 2016, 01:02:43 PM

Title: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on May 31, 2016, 01:02:43 PM
After about 30 miles of riding my 2000 Monster 750, I was coming up on a stop sign, and I clicked down into 4th gear. Well, that's all she wrote.. The shifter stayed down, the bike pretended it was in neutral, and I cant get the shifter to budge.. and I wasn't about to force anything around in fear of screwing something up worse..

So, here is what I know.
- Less than 1000 miles on a new Ducati Clutch put in at Tytler's Cycle of De Pere Wisconsin.
- no oil or anything in the sight glass on transmission side
- Clicked down into 4th, no return of shifter, and is stuck there
- Bike will roll as if its in neutral but theres a lick coming from the transmission somewhere
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on May 31, 2016, 01:15:17 PM
The sight glass on the left side of the bike should not show oil when the engine is not running.

The linkages under the alternator cover can get beat up pretty good... plus there was an issue on some bikes with one of the return springs.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=8154.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=8154.0)
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=31718.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=31718.0)
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=67329.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=67329.0)

Potentially just an adjustment for you, but will require removing the alternator cover.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on May 31, 2016, 01:39:47 PM
And here's the thread with all the detail.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46039.15 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46039.15)

I believe all Pantah motors are the same...
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: BK_856er on May 31, 2016, 07:49:03 PM
Quote from: Dirty Duc on May 31, 2016, 01:39:47 PM
And here's the thread with all the detail.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46039.15 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46039.15)

I believe all Pantah motors are the same...

My hard work lives on!  Sweet!   [Dolph]

BK
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: clubhousemotorsports on June 01, 2016, 04:55:53 AM
Just need to pull the left side cover and replace a spring or shift arm possibly.  Might just need an adjustment, if the bike had fell on the left side it can cause this.

While you are there consider a light weight flywheel as you will be pulling yours and you might as well make an improvement and enjoy the fix.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 01, 2016, 01:12:26 PM
Whew!! This gave me a lot of relief reading yalls posts! So if its just a spring or an adjusment do you guys think that the shop that did the clutch (less than 1000 miles ago) will cover it? Cause to me it seems like they should.. Or i am just hoping too much ;D
I havent ever dealt with bike clutches before so this would be new to me, but I do have a friend who owns the best powersports shop in town if worst comes to worst..
So should I just give her a shot by myself?
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: herm on June 01, 2016, 01:49:16 PM
Quote from: clubhousemotorsports on June 01, 2016, 04:55:53 AM
Just need to pull the left side cover and replace a spring or shift arm possibly.  Might just need an adjustment, if the bike had fell on the left side it can cause this.

While you are there consider a light weight flywheel as you will be pulling yours and you might as well make an improvement and enjoy the fix.

I second the lightened flywheel suggestion!  [Dolph]
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on June 01, 2016, 01:49:41 PM
Quote from: lipski24 on June 01, 2016, 01:12:26 PM
Whew!! This gave me a lot of relief reading yalls posts! So if its just a spring or an adjusment do you guys think that the shop that did the clutch (less than 1000 miles ago) will cover it? Cause to me it seems like they should.. Or i am just hoping too much ;D
I havent ever dealt with bike clutches before so this would be new to me, but I do have a friend who owns the best powersports shop in town if worst comes to worst..
So should I just give her a shot by myself?
Unlikely anything they did touched those bits. The shifting bits are on the opposite side of the motorcycle, under a totally separate case.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: clubhousemotorsports on June 01, 2016, 04:51:59 PM
Dirty Duc is right they would have not had anything to do near the alternator cover.

Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 02, 2016, 12:23:00 PM
I failed to mention that they replaced the slave cylinder as well... Dont know if that changes anything or not.
So what he had replaced:
-Clutch Disc Set
-Piston Assembly
-Clutch control rod
-clutch springs & retainers
-clutch drum
-Ball bearing
-all the miscellaneous stuff that goes with the repairs.
The PO had over $1100 into repairs.. I only paid $1700..

Also if you could lead me in the direction of a lightweight flywheel for my bike since yall say its worth my time to replace... ;D
Will i be needing special tools for this job??
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Kopfjäger on June 02, 2016, 02:35:51 PM
Lighten the stock one.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 03, 2016, 11:43:46 AM
UPDATE, (without really doing anything) I got out a small rubber dead blow hammer, and tapped on the shifter, the case, and the shaft that sticks out of the case that shifts.. sorry for not knowing the specific name.. haha but anyways, I got on it, rolled it around a little bit, and pulled the clutch in.. now I can shift it and ride it! But.... you can only click into nuetral from second, and is almost non existant. Plus, when I stat riding, if I dont ride the clutch and let first fully engage, it sounds like a small metal shrapnel  war is going on inside the left side cover..

So where does this leave me..????? Thanks for all the help guys.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Speeddog on June 03, 2016, 12:45:56 PM
Where does that leave you?
It's probably more make the beast with two backsed up than it was before.
My recommendation is to not start the engine again.

There are several gears in that side, some of which are spinning full time while the engine is running.
When one of the springs breaks, there is at least one piece of spring roaming around.
Spinning gears do not appreciate being fed spring bits.

Get the alternator cover off and find out what's gone wrong.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Duck-Stew on June 03, 2016, 01:41:10 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on June 03, 2016, 12:45:56 PM
Where does that leave you?
It's probably more make the beast with two backsed up than it was before.
My recommendation is to not start the engine again.

There are several gears in that side, some of which are spinning full time while the engine is running.
When one of the springs breaks, there is at least one piece of spring roaming around.
Spinning gears do not appreciate being fed spring bits.

Get the alternator cover off and find out what's gone wrong.

+1 to all of the above.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on June 03, 2016, 02:26:36 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on June 03, 2016, 12:45:56 PM
Spinning gears do not appreciate being fed spring bits.
Or much of anything else, for that matter...
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on June 03, 2016, 02:32:21 PM
You'll need one of these:
http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/ALT-1/MAINT-TOOLS/ALT-1.html (http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/ALT-1/MAINT-TOOLS/ALT-1.html)

or
http://motowheels.com/i-6922506-corse-dynamics-alternator-case-cover-puller-ducati.html (http://motowheels.com/i-6922506-corse-dynamics-alternator-case-cover-puller-ducati.html)
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 03, 2016, 08:46:52 PM
I didn't plan on starting it again. I was just curious as to if it magically fixed itself with those hammer taps... What do you guys run for oil in your bikes and how often do you change it? Or am I starting a war with that question?  [popcorn] haha!
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Kopfjäger on June 03, 2016, 09:03:33 PM
Right above your thread.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.msg21766#msg21766 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1912.msg21766#msg21766)
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on June 03, 2016, 09:20:19 PM
I put my money where my mouth is.

That said, wet clutches can be sensitive to oil changes and blend.

I suspect the aptc in the new to me engine isn't used to synthetic. Or it is just used up in a purported 15k. The first aptc started slipping around 20-24k and I sourced a used regular clutch out of a 750 or something that gave me no trouble.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 06, 2016, 04:52:34 PM
I have the left side cover off... Upon my first inspection, I havent found the culprit. Theres no bits of a spring or any metal shavings or anything that from my knowledge (which is slim when it comes to this bike) looks to be bad or broken. I am not sure how to remove the flywheel or anything past this point.. So am in dire need help.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on June 06, 2016, 04:53:43 PM
Pictures would help a lot at this point.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 07, 2016, 06:23:21 PM
How does one add pictures...?
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 07, 2016, 06:26:55 PM
Quote from: lipski24 on June 07, 2016, 06:23:21 PM
How does one add pictures...?
You need to host them on almost any image hosting site...Google doesn't work great...

and post a link to the image.

Look here... http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=109.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=109.0)
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 07, 2016, 07:15:50 PM
Okayy thanks
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: clubhousemotorsports on June 08, 2016, 05:57:22 AM
You need to check alignment of the shift arm. Put the bike in neutral and make sure the alignment mark is centered on the shift drum pin. There are 2 bolts holding this arm to the case a 6mm and an 8mm bolt, both should be loosened for you to adjust and I would use Blue loctite and do not strip them out when re-tightening. You do not need to remove the flywheel to adjust.

As to the noise you should have some metal with shiny spots if it is rubbing under the left cover so look very carefully.

What is the bike again are we sure it is not somewhat normal dry clutch chatter?
Does it have a dry clutch?

Turn the motor over slowly by hand and see if you hear anything with the cover off.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 08, 2016, 06:56:58 AM
It's a 750.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 13, 2016, 12:04:43 PM
(https://imgur.com/rH6nd0N)
(https://imgur.com/YGNn7FP)
(https://imgur.com/qQkafyK)
(https://imgur.com/a/jsHTC)
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 13, 2016, 12:05:16 PM
I hope those worked...
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on June 13, 2016, 12:31:57 PM
Quote from: lipski24 on June 13, 2016, 12:04:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/rH6nd0N.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YGNn7FP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qQkafyK.jpg)

I don't know what's wrong with the url of the 4th pic in this post, but fixed three of them.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on June 13, 2016, 12:34:59 PM
It's hard to tell from the angle in pic 2, but it looks like the arm is out of adjustment. In that position, the "elbow" part of the arm is probably colliding with the gear that is behind the flywheel.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Speeddog on June 13, 2016, 12:36:15 PM
Can you take another picture , like the second one, but straight on?
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: clubhousemotorsports on June 14, 2016, 07:26:58 AM
For alignment also make sure it is in Neutral, it is not in the pictures.
You should be able to manually rotate the shift drum and get it there, turn the drum counter clockwise while rocking the countershaft back and forth to align the dogs.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 15, 2016, 08:17:45 AM
Shift drum..? Sorry, i am not up to speed with yall yet. Haha!  ??? Yes I can take another picture like that. Any other pictures I should take??? So can I remove the flywheel without screwing up timing or anything? Sorry for my lack of knowledge on these bikes guys... I appreciate your patience!
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 15, 2016, 08:27:18 AM
The shift drum is the round thing at the top right with the pegs that the arm turns
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 18, 2016, 05:56:03 PM
https://imgur.com/a/TEnCi
https://imgur.com/lX4sr0n
https://imgur.com/kif9s2w
https://imgur.com/qEyd9FP


So I have been messing with it and I am still confused as to what happened..
How do I get the flywheel off without screwing anything up? And then what do I do to adjust whatever I need to..?

Thank you for your patience... I'm very new to this unfortunately, but I really want to learn.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 19, 2016, 03:53:15 AM
Was the bike in neutral?
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 19, 2016, 08:20:26 AM
While I took the pictures yes..
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: BK_856er on June 19, 2016, 09:17:41 AM
OP, did you read and study the linked threads?  Have you sourced at least one electronic or printed manual?  Do you have the proper tools to do the job?  The shifter adjustment is tricky to describe with words.  There is a newish tool to get the harpoon close to perfect without a lot of judgment.  Here's another set of pics to look at - don't worry the shifter mechanisms are all the same:  http://www.europeancycleservices.com/project-bikes/jasons-848/ (http://www.europeancycleservices.com/project-bikes/jasons-848/)

BK

Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 19, 2016, 03:53:30 PM
I need the adjustment tool. I have been looking at the owners manual online and the parts one. It hasn't helped all that much.. Could you point me in the direction of the adjustment tool your talking about?
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 19, 2016, 04:07:46 PM
The shift linkage needs adjusting. There is a locknut and eccentric peg behind the flywheel.

Flywheel has to come off.

This job might be beyond the capabilities of your tool box.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 19, 2016, 05:00:25 PM
I would be willing to buy the tools I need.. I just need someone to give me a link to them. I will need yalls help on it, but I am confident I can handle it as long as its just the adjustment.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on June 19, 2016, 06:16:59 PM
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ducati+gear+selector+adjustment+tool&tbm=vid (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ducati+gear+selector+adjustment+tool&tbm=vid)

The first video on my search...

And the part number for the tool is in the first post in BK856er's thread.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 19, 2016, 09:34:46 PM
That should help me quite a bit. I will buy the tool, then give it a shot. I will start a new thread for everything else. Thanks guys, and please throw some words on the new thread when I start to do the actual adjustment!
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on June 19, 2016, 10:46:38 PM
I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm attempting to instill a problem-solving attitude. There''s an awful lot of info out there, don't expect others to find it for you. You have to evaluate all advice you get from the internet with the same filter. This is just a better place to start than most.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 20, 2016, 03:23:48 AM
Quote from: lipski24 on June 19, 2016, 09:34:46 PM
That should help me quite a bit. I will buy the tool, then give it a shot. I will start a new thread for everything else. Thanks guys, and please throw some words on the new thread when I start to do the actual adjustment!
No need for a new thread.

This one will work fine.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 21, 2016, 12:07:14 AM
Alright well thanks again. Let you know how everything works out
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 21, 2016, 07:49:59 AM
Quote from: lipski24 on June 21, 2016, 12:07:14 AM
Alright well thanks again. Let you know how everything works out
It becomes easier for people that want to help to follow one thread rather than 2. It will save everyone time and effort because there is a record right here of everything that's been discussed.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 25, 2016, 09:35:36 AM
Back to this fun....
So I did the adjustment of the harpoon fork as it wasn't correctly aligned, and I got it to shift good and smooth. When I put my clutch slave cylinder back on the bike, it then decided to act more like a brake and just build pressure..
What is wrong with it? I drained it and bled it out, and got the same thing..
What's going on with this thing??
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 25, 2016, 09:39:47 AM
Quote from: lipski24 on June 25, 2016, 09:35:36 AM
Back to this fun....
So I did the adjustment of the harpoon fork as it wasn't correctly aligned, and I got it to shift good and smooth. When I put my clutch slave cylinder back on the bike, it then decided to act more like a brake and just build pressure..
What is wrong with it? I drained it and bled it out, and got the same thing..
What's going on with this thing??

Did the slave piston move out on you while it was off the cover?

Remove it again and open the bleeder and push it back into the cylinder as far as you can.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 25, 2016, 08:21:55 PM
It might have. I will try that tomorrow. I even took it to the local power sports place and he "fixed it" and then charged me almost $40. put it on, same thing.. so that was a nice waste of money..
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 27, 2016, 03:12:29 PM
I did as you said of cracking the bleeder and pushing the piston back in. With no avail..
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 27, 2016, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: lipski24 on June 27, 2016, 03:12:29 PM
I did as you said of cracking the bleeder and pushing the piston back in. With no avail..
Did the piston move?
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 28, 2016, 01:02:45 PM
Yes, the piston moves fine. I tink its something with the pushrod or the clutch... which i dont know anything about.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 28, 2016, 01:40:20 PM
Quote from: lipski24 on June 28, 2016, 01:02:45 PM
Yes, the piston moves fine. I tink its something with the pushrod or the clutch... which i dont know anything about.
It's possible, but unlikely, the push rod could have gotten damaged when you pulled the cover.

Worth a look. You should be able to pull it out through the hole in the cover when you remove the slave.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Ddan on June 28, 2016, 05:24:49 PM
Did you make any adjustment on the lever or master cylinder?
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on June 30, 2016, 04:51:13 PM
I pulled the rod previous to replacing the cover, and it was fine. No, I didn't do anything out of the ordinary to the slave or lever itself. I have the adjustable levers, and no matter where it is, it'll still get stiff and not pull in. Anyone want a Monster?  [laugh]
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on June 30, 2016, 05:03:06 PM
Pull the slave and carefully pull the clutch lever...not too far...you don't want to push the piston out of the slave. If the lever moves, and the piston moves...

the problem is the rod, or something in the clutch.

Did the rod come out easily?

I'm wondering if the push piece that sits in the bearing in the pressure plate came dislodged when you pulled the rod and now the rod can't push the pressure plate.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on July 02, 2016, 08:30:24 AM
Okay. I will try that as soon as I get home. So possibly tonight. I wouldn't say it came out easily.. the o rings were still good and everything.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on July 03, 2016, 08:15:59 AM
Is that an easy fix to get the pushed back through the bearing and align the piece?
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: ducpainter on July 04, 2016, 06:16:03 AM
If the push piece came loose I think you're going to have to pull the cover and take the pressure plate off to put it back iin place.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on July 04, 2016, 09:32:26 AM
Okay. Do you think its possible to get the rod to go back without puling the right side cover?
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: Dirty Duc on July 04, 2016, 09:33:55 AM
Possible? Maybe. More frustrating than just pulling the right side cover and pressure plate? Definitely.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on July 05, 2016, 08:48:01 AM
Alright. Well shnikeys. I shall let yall know how everything goes.
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on July 11, 2016, 05:15:29 PM
Took it into the powersports place my buddy owns. I found out that he actually owned the bike previously, and that theres been a lot of money put into the bike.. Ha! I guess monsters really do turn riders into mechanics  ;D Anyways, hopefully I am back on the road soon!
Title: Re: $hit... Hoping its not the transmission... HELP PLEASE
Post by: lipski24 on July 20, 2016, 07:48:51 AM
Sorry on leaving yall hanging for a few days... But, it was that the pressure plate was misaligned. I ended up throwing a few hundred dollars into it between the clutch fix, exhaust fix, brake flush, clutch slave cylinder fix, and miscellaneous shop things and now I have my baby back! Couldnt be happier with this bike. Thanks again guys!