Ducati Monster Forum

04 620, 86,xxx miles
Generally runs just fine, has a mis-fire once in a while when the plugs get long in the tooth, historically resolved by putting in new plugs.  a small oil-mist-leak up front somewhere, horizontal cylinder I think, but otherwise seemingly mechanically sound.
 
Bike ran fine this weekend. Changed the oil Monday and no weirdness discovered.
Commuted tuesday, 20miles each way.  After work noticed the temp said --- so I jiggled the temp sensor connector (which I'd taken off to inspect the screen), temp worked fine after that, no issues getting home.
 
Warmed up this morning, no issues.  mounted up, down my street and died at the end of the street.  Didn't shut off, still had electrical power, just engine shut off.  key off/on, gauges swept, restarted, revved and idled fine.  weird.
 
pulled out of street, seemed OK, 1/4 mile down the road made a right, another 1/2 block and it shut off again.  U turned to go back home, noticed this time, now the gauges aren't sweeping when I key-on.  nursed it another block, died.  pushed the rest of the way home.
 
hopped in my car and drove to work (suck!), and just got home from kid's school concert so I didn't get to trouble shoot at all.
 

no gauge sweep makes me think it's electrical, but then I shouldn't have enough juice to start it either.
Any suggestion on what I should check first?

tested the battery, key on, motor off, 13.8ish volts.  fired up, idles OK.  at 2k rpm, I get about 14.5v at the battery, so seems to be charging OK.

did noticed just now the headlight is out, but shouldn't cause it to die.

took a spin on my street, got 1/2 way down the block and it shut off again.  key off/on.  gauges did not sweep, but it did start and got me back up the street to my garage.

Check the fuses, occasionally they can provide an intermittent no-power condition.

Visually inspect the contacts in the fuse box, I've seen those get crappy.

Check the two small relays next to the battery, the housing the reside on, and contacts.

thanks nick.

I pulled all the fuses, everything seemed normal. contacts looked normal.  relays and the main fuse all looked OK.

put it on my stand and fired it up, started right up again.  shifted through the gears on the stand and it ran fine through all the gears.

i'm going to run it around the block in a bit and report back.

hm same thing.
so runs OK through the gears on the paddock stand, but not under real load.

fuel filter?  the whole gauges not sweeping makes me think no, but maybe it's starved for fuel when under a real load?

Loose dash connection/wire?
Sidestand switch? Bypass it with a paper clip and see if it stops. Careful now.

does this happen on any gear?

gauges not sweping is no good . . .

fhe with similar case, same symptom but cause was an hid lighr kit where they bored the ECU to use as ground because they were told the front lights and blinkers used the ECU/dash as ground . . . since I had another bike, same model/year I swappwd ECUs and issue was gone . . .

I am leaning towards an electrical gremlin . . . do as koko says and let us know

Any immobilizer light happenings?  If not I would suggest bypassing or replacing the main relay and see what happens.  Also check the connections to the gauges and see if turning the handlebare while running causes a stall.

i don't want to screw it up. I searched around, but didn't find anything really definitive.  is there a picture or diagram on doing this? 


well, i can't really get it up to speed on a clear road to figure that part out.  so far it's happened around 2nd/3rd, but that's because I have a stop sign/light.  in my garage on the stand, I got it up to 4th/5th with no problem.

no immobilizer lights, altho the immobilizer does activate once in while when I'm trying to start.  Usually I turn it off, remove key, walk 50 feet away, come back, and it starts up (multiple walks sometimes needed).

I looked in the parts diagram and I couldn't identify the main relay.  can you describe it to me?

turning the bars doesn't seem to do it, each time it's died I've been on a straight.

Wild guess, but what about the antenna and it's connection?

this is probably out there, but I was having some strange problem with my bike, and it turned out to be the fuel pump not fully seated in the mount. It managed enough flow to ride but would sometimes not start after having been ridden ans stopped for a while, and glitchy just off idle.
 Prolly not your case, but something to look at if all else fails.

well..
I visually inspected the gauge cluster connector and the plug and socket looked clean and normal. 

but I did hear something rattling around in the gauges as I handled them... that can't be good...
(http://i.imgur.com/WelaRgv.jpg)

ok, just some plastic tabs, no idea where they came from, but don't seem to be functional.


but then I noticed this:
(http://i.imgur.com/wJs5Qjs.jpg)

i should mention in the last 6 months or so, once in a while the cluster lights are slow to come on. 

bike still ran up and down the street OK, maybe 100 yards down the block, and then back.  didn't die.  I tried to goose it a little, but can't go too fast down my street.



I'd previously mentioned the headlight was out and I figured it was just age.  I mean, 80k miles and I've never replaced it, figured it just died.

replaced it yesterday and today when I went out to try some of the things above, I noticed the headlight was out..  so even more so I think I have a short somewhere. 

I checked the fuse block under the ECU, behind the airbox.  is there another somewhere that just drives the headlight?

I don't remember which relay is which, but there are only two.  One is the main relay, the other is the fuel injection relay.  Either can cause your problem.  You could replace them or bypass them by placing a jumper wire between terminal 30 and 87 for test purposes.  Remember, you have bypassed safety devices.

I have no idea whether the immobilizer affects running after start up, hopefully someone will clarify.  After stalling does starter work?  That will be affected by the immobilizer.  Clearly you need to do something about that instrument cluster anyway.  Kill the immobilizer and you can get a used or aftermarket cluster.

Neither high, low, passing or pilot light function?  Got power at the white wire at the headlight connector?  Good ground?  If you just visually inspected the fuse test it with a meter or test light.

The main fusebox is as you described, and then there's the master 40A fuse located near the right rear corner of the battery.
That's all of the fuses.

I'm with Howie on replacement of the relays.

those are the little square/cube things near the 40A fuse right?  just want to ensure I'm replacing the right thing.


Do you think they'd have them at the local auto parts or electronic supply house? or only at the dealer?

Yep, them's the ones.

Tyco V23073
NAPA AR634
Bosch 0 322 207 307
CarQuest RY620
BorgWarner R3223
MOPAR 56006846

There's probably more.

I was going to say to give a call to Ford Electronics in Buena Park, but seems they're gone.  :'(
That place was epic.

awesome, thank you.  I'll get to autozone tomorrow maybe thursday, weekend for sure and report back.

well, interestingly enough. autozone had a match for one of the part numbers, the NAPA one I think.

however, the new relay has 5.. posts? blades? on it, and the ones in the bike have 4.  there's a row of 3 on the bottom, the one in the bike looks like that post is snapped off.

they only had 1 and ordered me another to pick up (or not) tomorrow.

the new one I did get did plug in, and the socket it plugs into has 5 slots.

any foreseeable problem with the NAPA relay with 5 posts?

Nope, no problem.

thank you.
replaced both, started up and idled fine.
took a ride down to the gas station and it did not die (about 3x as far as it went before without dying).

took a spin around town and seemed to be OK.

looks like I'm in the clear for now.  Thanks everyone, but especially thanks to Nick and Howie.  You easily saved me a couple hundred dollars of shop diagnostic time.

(http://i.imgur.com/Y5wa0Pe.jpg)

Glad your problem is resolved.

and maybe it's my imagination, or after having to commute by car for a week, but man my bike seemed to run much better yesterday.

in case you're wondering what's inside
(http://i.imgur.com/LfXrENS.jpg)

Great thread, great result!!!   [clap]

well...

it happened again today.
same symptom.  shut off at 40mph at 4,000 rpm, while lane sharing.  pretty exciting.

pulled over, key off/on.  no gauge sweep, but started up.  got me the rest of the way home 15 miles, with a gas stop along the way, and seemed to be OK.  Headlight bulb is out again.

I had it idling in the driveway when I got home and noticed there was 'smoke' coming out of the exhaust.  not smoke really, but visible vapors, which I can't say I've ever noticed before.

I'll upload a link of the repair manual . .  for some reason I think this is happening because of a "faulty-loose connection"

edit:

user's manual with electrical at end
file:///C:/Users/Carlos%20Brewer/Downloads/M620_800_1000_2004_it_en_fr_de.pdf

Has the rubbing loom near head stem been covered?
Or loose connection as you say.

NOPE
Electrical gremlin . . . need to get home to upload link for m620 manual in English . . .

Koko makes a valid point. I believe the kill switch wiring is still in the same spot in the harness near the steering head tube.

A frayed wire in there could cause intermittent shutdowns.

Try moving the handlebars from lock to lock while idling.

finally had time to look behind the headlight.

(http://i.imgur.com/CYIIL8Q.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/38ClXj3.jpg)


the bullet connectors looked kind of suspicious but they're just the brake light and the clutch switch.

there's one spot you can see on the steering head where the paint has worn off so I felt around that bundle of wires but everything seems intact.

Started up OK, bounced the handle bars quite a bit and wiggled back and forth, still idled.  jiggled all the wires I could move, some quite vigorously, but still idled.

I'm kind of at a loss.

any ideas?  Do I need to completely dismantle the wiring bundles (I don't know the right word) and inspect every wire now?

I was kind of hoping I'd get the headlight off and find something super obvious.

Look for the white connectors . . . sort of large . . .

Wire HARNESS is what you are trying to say, but, don't worry


BTW, did I sent you the link to the manual?

I did, thank you.  work/family has been busy so I haven't had time to do anything.

I didn't see any overt white connectors, so it sounds like I should disassemble the headlight/gauges area as much as possible, slice open the wire harness and look for damage?

Ok, connectors could be white or black with 6 connectors and 4, IIRC . . .

Since your issue is WHEN you are moving, I am leaning very very hard to either a connection that has to do with "killing" engine such as:

1. Clutch lever engaged micro-switch
2. Side stand sensor or wiring
3. Kill switch wiring INSIDE rh switch . . 

As said, if it ONLY happens when riding . . . Check those circuits and IIRC you have already replaced the relays . . . Just for fun, can you spend a few bucks replacing ALL fuses? And the trying to go for a ride . .

the gauges not sweeping is what makes me think it's something beyond a kill signal...

well initial dive into the switch gear, headlight, and gauge harness was fruitless.  nothing obvious so far.

(http://i.imgur.com/kj6YLPt.jpg)

i thought I'd found something when I discovered this tear, but nothing inside looked wrong

(http://i.imgur.com/d4adkai.jpg)

well I opened up the wire harnesses behind the headlight and found no faults.  I've replaced all the fuses as well as suggested above.  can't run it around the block right now, but I'll report later.

oh, and note - when you don't have a standard gas cap and an almost full tank of gas, it's going to leak fuel when you prop the tank.

+1 on those tests. A paper clip to bypass the sidestand switch is an easy test. Close the circuit and tape it in. Same with the clutch switch test, you can paper clip it or tape it on. Were they covered previously? Be careful.

They tend to let in a fair amount of water too...

not that it's a major concern for southern Californians from most reports.

Interesting tidbit.  the pack of fuses I bought had a little 1-light idiot tester thing.  A few of the fuses I noticed gave very sporadic lights, while others were solid no matter what I did.  also noticed a few of the removed fuses, were kind of.. thin.. that is, differing thicknesses in different parts of the actual fuse section.

Hopeful, I started up today no problem.  idled for several minutes, no problem.
~20mph jaunt down my street and back with no problem.  back up the driveway, parked, adjusted chain, still idling.  all good.  helmet/gloves to run around the block. 

hit the bottom of my driveway and it konked out.


haven't tried bypassing anything yet.  the gauges not sweeping and blowing out the headlight doesn't seem to lend itself to the sidestand switch or the clutch switch.  I mean it could be, but the headlight seems like a weird by product of that.

buddy of mine commented on the rectifier.  I don't really think that's it either, but i suppose if it was some kind of intermittent failure it might act the way it is, completely shutting off power to *just* the engine?

I dunno, I'm kind of at a loss.  I keep expecting to find something obvious and just coming up blank every time. 

Yep, pull 'em out and take 'em to the auto parts store.

if you're referring to the fuses I already replaced them all.

if you're not, I don't know what you're referring to.

oh, also.  battery is ~4 years old, shorai.  I wouldn't think a bad battery would kill it while running.  I've had a dead battery before and this isn't behaving that way. 

rectifier and stator have about 30k miles on them.

Pardon, I meant the relays. May be confused with another thread, not sure now (senior moment) ;D

You gotta try bypassing the sidestand and clutch switches. They can bugger up from vibration. just be careful when you do.

ok, thanks.
yeah i already replaced the replays.  side stand is next I guess.  the no gauge sweep is still baffling me.

last week I decided, "well, the rectifier has about 25,000 miles on it, probably a good idea to replace."  A Ricks Mosfet model showed up today and although I don't think it's the problem when I remove the old one to install it...

(http://i.imgur.com/oxqLyon.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/be6yNWM.jpg)


/sigh

is it possible the stator is fine, and just the rectifier puked, killing the plug?  can I just install a new end to the 3-wire coming from the stator?

Yes.

That connector has been problematic since...

ever.

Cut back to shiny copper.

so i stopped at the local electronics store:

(http://i.imgur.com/QdAarZw.jpg)

but it was 16? gauge wires, so they pointed me to some others to swap in.

(http://i.imgur.com/ymezbPe.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ZU6O5dY.jpg)

and here's the Rick's Mosfet in my <cough> custom upside down mount

(http://i.imgur.com/WrjkRR1.jpg)



took a test drive in ever increasing circles around town, so I wouldn't be too far from home if it crapped out.

pro tip:  if you're having electrical problems, check the rectifier first.  I should've done it a month ago.

great news . . .

any suggestions on what do  about all the wire harness I sliced open and cut off?

Electrical tape.

before connecting I would have suggested heat shrink tubing . . .but, seems I am a bit late to the party

Adhesive lined heat shrink tube
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/ancor--adhesive-lined-heat-shrink-tubing-alt--P009_275_003_003 (http://www.westmarine.com/buy/ancor--adhesive-lined-heat-shrink-tubing-alt--P009_275_003_003)

Or,

Self fusing electrical tape
https://www.zoro.com/scotch-electrical-tape-12-mil-1-x-30-ft-gray-70-1x30ft/i/G1887891/?gclid=CKebzoX5vs4CFRKRfgod1XgB1g&gclsrc=aw.ds (https://www.zoro.com/scotch-electrical-tape-12-mil-1-x-30-ft-gray-70-1x30ft/i/G1887891/?gclid=CKebzoX5vs4CFRKRfgod1XgB1g&gclsrc=aw.ds)

does heat shrink fit over the big huge connectors and still shrink down enough?

if you get a size large enough, it should . . but, you want to be able to disconnect

This is the heatshrink tubing I use, generally before connectors are on.
I get the individual 4-foot pieces:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#heat-shrink-tubing/=13qj3mz (http://www.mcmaster.com/#heat-shrink-tubing/=13qj3mz)

There's this style, I use it on harnesses that are already assembled:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cable-sleeving/=13qj9vs (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cable-sleeving/=13qj9vs)

Their full selection of sleeving, some of it is expandable:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cable-sleeving/=13qj6by (http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-cable-sleeving/=13qj6by)