Ducati Monster Forum

Hey cool, a new Monster forum!  Guess I'm a couple months behind the times, I posted over at the old dml and was wondering why no one ever replied.......  it's like a ghost town... guess I know now!

So I just got my Monster race bike done, I'll be racing in the CCS Lightweight class with it the rest of the year.  Still have to get it dyno'd and figure out why my battery keeps getting drained, but I plan to have it out at a track day on Monday to do a little testing with the chassis.  It started as a '98 M900, but now is a high-comp 944 with ported heads, dual-spark conversion, hotter cams, 41mm flatslides, Yoyodyne slipper clutch, Nichols light flywheel, Sil-motor spaghetti headers ceramic coated, leo vince cans, roadracing aluminum tank, Ohlins forks from a 999S with custom triples and 4-pad brembos, Ohlins shock, Brembo 19x20 radial master, 748 race upper and tail mounted to the original Monster seat pat for easy removal, Carrozzeria forged aluminum wheels and Carrozzeria wave rotors, and a bunch of other stuff.  Should be fun!!  Who else is racing a Monster??

(http://www.ducatiomaha.com/images/M900R_20080719a.jpg)
(http://www.ducatiomaha.com/images/M900R_20080719b.jpg)
(http://www.ducatiomaha.com/images/M900R_20080719c.jpg)

downright sexy!


i think you could have bought a house instead...  ;D

Very trick!  Interested to see what kind of  [bacon] you will be makin' on the dyno 8)  Keep us updated.

Well, maybe if you combine it with the 1098, I could have gotten a nice mobile home in a trailer park.....  :D

(http://www.ducatiomaha.com/Images/Jarel1098_1.JPG)

We built 2 similar 944 motors at the same time, one was mine and one went in an SS900ie race bike for one of our customers.  His made 85 at the wheel running single-spark, and with stock headers, so I'm hoping for 90 or so running dual-spark wth my flatslides on pump gas. 

I am,  www.teamatomicracing.com  On my website, I have several pics of mine and it should be getting updated today.
There are several of us campaigning 620s in CRA. The 900 is now LW legal, and I know of one M900, and one SS900 being set up for next year.

Look me up if you plan to come to BIR.

Very cool.  Do you guys have a team website or anything.  i would love to get to Mid America sometime (I am in Cedar Rapids IA).

mitt

If you haven't been there, do a trackday. It's a really fun track.  [thumbsup]

Your putting that Roadracing tank on a race machine?!?!?!
You got balls, Sir.

Don't you need an oil catchpan to race?

Which one are you going to use?

P.S. looks great, good luck with that Chromo tank though [thumbsup]

nice one jarelj  [thumbsup]

same thing happened to me on TOB. i joined on the day the sh*t was hitting the fan and i couldn't figure out why no one was welcoming me  [roll]

best of luck with your racing

Kind of, just our shop web site, we have some a few racing pics up there, I have a bunch more just haven't posted them to the site yet:
http://www.ducatiomaha.com/gallery.asp?g=racing

Here's a link to a video of MAM I shot from on board my 1098 at a recent track day:
http://www.riderforums.com/showthread.php?t=12177

What are you worried about, it's got the word "racing" right in the name!!  [laugh] [laugh]

Yeah you're right, I just haven't put it on yet, I have a Catalyst Racing bellypan painted black.  I just need to make a couple little brackets for it.

Where did you get that header system
I found one similar?? at spareshack.com
but I emailed them and have not heard back from them
I am a bit leary about ordering anything out of the country
I called motowheels and they were going to call me back regarding
a group buy but also have not heard back from them

I am looking for a spaghetti header for my '95 supersport
and I also have a '98 monster

Dan....

 [roll]

I got it from http://www.eurocorsa.com/ had to wait about 6 weeks but it finally came in.

My plans got derailed for the track day last week, I ended up justing taking the 1098.  I'm going to try again this coming Monday.  I did get a chance to take the Monster out for a brief shakedown spin, and I think I'm going to like it once it's running well.  The chassis felt very "sporty" but stable, I didn't get to drag a knee since I wasn't at the track but I could at least tell that it's close to a good setup.  But the jetting is way off, it needs to get to the dyno.

I've got a question for you monster racing folks:
How are you addressing how light the monster is on the front wheel.  I've just got my monster back after a year of separation, and I am shocked by how little weight is on the front.  Under heavy breaking I can get the front tire to skip consistently.   The front is not “pushing”  there is just not enough weight to get that thing settled in.  Long ago I sent Fasterblackduc a PM regarding raising the rear...I have a 916 front end on my bike and the forks are dropped maybe 3-5 mm, but it just does not inspire a lot of confidence for really aggressive riding.  The bike feels like a tail dragger in comparison to the gixxer I use for the track.

Any words of advice?

I don't remember if you raised the rear at all or if you have clipons? I would start there first. The Monster is very capable of cornering hard, but you're right...it is a tail "dragger" in stock form.

It took me a while to get the perfect set up. Off the top of my head from memory, I have 9.5mm of fork above triple, and I've raised the rear enough to get 12 degrees of swingarm angle. I think your forks are longer so I could take some measurements for you as a guide if you need me to. I could measure from the floor up to the bottom of the lower clamp,(that would cancel out the difference in fork length) and find a reference point to measure for the rear. You could use this as a starting point to make adjustments. My Monster is awesome on the track now. It handles so good now that it does not feel like a Monster at all. It's rock solid. I had a few lowsides before I got it dialed in from tucking the front. Now, with rebuilt stock forks and the right geometry changes, it has turned several 1:59 laps at BIR. That is freakin' hauling the mail on a 60hp. bike. I think that's the second fastest time ever for an Ultralight. (these laps were done by my teammate Mark Miller during an endurance race, I'm running 2:04s)
I'm only talking about mine to explain that it's set up awesome for racing, and that you could reference it.

Or, just make small adjustments yourself. Let me know if you want some measurements. I can take some this week.

yeah, I'd be interested in knowing how you've got yours set up.  I've got clipons...thought I would get them on the bike sometime soon.

Cool. Give me a few days. I'm super busy this week. I'll just pm you the info.

We weighed mine yesterday, it was 365 lbs. with 183 on the front and 182 on the rear, so pretty good weight distribution.  I've raised the rear quite a bit and have the forks 5mm above the triples.  Haven't had it on the track yet, so I'll probably end up tweaking the ride height settings after I've had a chance to put it through the pace.s

Finally got the Monster out to the track for a "shakedown" run.  I didn't have a chance to get it to the dyno beforehand, so I just guessed at the jetting, it wasn't too far off but can definitely use some further tuning.  I found the riding position was not going to work, so I had to improvise a spacer under the seat to get it up a little bit higher.  The footpegs are still a problem, too close to the exhaust, so I'm still going to have to do something about that.  The handling was surprisingly good, considering the whole chassis is completely customized and had never been tuned on the track yet.  I think it's going to make a fine race bike!  It went to the dyno today, so it should be ready to roll next week for the next track day.  I'll post some pics of it on the track when I get them downloaded.

(http://www.ducatiomaha.com/images/M900Track1.jpg)

Jarel. Nice Pic. Isnt that a Yamaha Helmet  ;D

Hey,,, what R your thoughts on turning a S4RS into a track bike ? I am so tempted

I prefer to think of it as a Colin Edwards helmet, the Yamaha association is purely incidental.....  [laugh]

Just depends on why you'd be doing it.  If it was for an occasional track day, and the rest of the time it would be a road bike, then go for it.  I've ridden an S4RS on the track several times, they do quite well up to a moderately fast pace.  The motor, suspension, and brakes are great for the track.  If you were going to make it a dedicated track bike (and/or if you're a fast track rider - racer, "A" group rider, etc.), then I'd probably say start with a different bike unless you have an S4RS with crash damage or something like that which could be modified without losing a lot of value.  For faster track speeds, you really need more weight on the front end, so you'd be switching to clip-ons, and the ground clearance would need to be increased with adjustable rearsets.  The seating position is not ideal for the track either (needs to be higher and canted forward more), so if you wanted to make it into a real race bike you'd probably want to switch to a different tail section like I have on my Monster, that makes it feel a lot more like a proper track bike.  At the end of the day, you have a 999 without the Superbike chassis and riding position which are already great for the track, so you might be asking yourself why you didn't just get a Superbike.  If you just want to take it out and have some fun, go for it!

Thanx Bud/Jarel............Thats kinda what I thought. So,,, I have a few people I know,, looking into a SBK that has been cosmetically altered.
I seen a 1098 on the back of a flat deck truck last week. The fellow lost it on the Hiway some place close to me. Frame, wheels & suspesion looked good. The rest not so good. The poor guy. Hope he had good Ins.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll201/JDSSDJ/P1010932.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll201/JDSSDJ/P1010933.jpg)


A SBK 999R,,, would be a good tracker/Race bike,,, ehhh ? ? Keeps me under 1000 cc,,,,,,,,hmmmm
Anywho,,,,,,,,Taking the S4RS that I have now,, & changing it to be competative on the track(cause,,, thats what I would end up doing) Would be a waist. Thanx for clarifing that.

Keep us posted on your results with your Monster/tracker.

Cheers

JDS

a monster is a street bike.  if you want a track bike, esp a "competitive" track bike, get a track bike...


why does staying under 1000cc matter?

and yes, a 999R is a superbike.. but there's a lot of debate about whether or not it's a *good* superbike.  especially, and if you're already talking those kinds of $$$, in light of, say, an 848.  or 1098.  both farrrr better track bikes that the 749/999.  but personally i don't know why you would track any ducati, unless someone was paying you to do so.  or at least providing the bike and paying for it when it goes down.  or you have lots of cash.

HOLY EXHAUST TUBE DIAMETER!!  How big are those primary tubes on the 1098?

Especially if you already have a track bike that you bought a month ago!  Fix the one you have.  No point in spending 15k+ on a bike that you won't be any faster on than the one you already have in your garage.

Not sure,, but I think 70 mm. I think they are the Full Termi's

True for the most part but there are exceptions. In some clubs, a 900SS or Monster is lightweight legal. The SS takes less work to make race ready but either of these is competitive against the SV. And the 620 fits into some clubs nicely too. In the CRA, the 620 is Ultralight SS legal and dominates the class. In fact, I'm two weekends away from hopefully winning the championship on my 620.
But why a Duc you say? Well, looking back over the past six years since 620s started racing in the CRA, they have been bulletproof. I'll try to attach a photo of a 620 that has been through 4 people since '02, and has nothing go wrong. Try finding an SV650 that has been raced for six years that is on the original motor...just try. It's not only this bike but all the ones running in CRA have held up better than any SV, and a lot of middleweights with nothing more than a yearly service, and regular oil changes. Some people are checking the valves after every race weekend but not everyone. These two valve motors are strong as heck! So, the actual operating cost ends up being cheap when compared to the SV which will have motor issues. It's not if but when. And it ends up being cheaper on the SV, to just buy a whole new motor. And the tire consumption is low due to the hp. I'm running the Dunlop 209s, and the Dunlop UK slicks this year and these tires seem to last forever. My 620 can get two weekends out of these tires, and I'm winning enough Dunlop contingency to pay for most of them :)
So, I agree that a Ducati superbike may not be the best choice but it depends on what you want to do. Your S4rs is NOT a good idea if you want to race. It will not be competitive and is not a good idea at all. If you want to race a Duc, go two-valve and check your clubs rules to see if the bike will even be competitive.

Here's the pic. I'm in front. The Monster behind me has been raced hard by four people with ZERO issues! That bike is fast too!

(http://i34.tinypic.com/30vy6w1.jpg)

another of mine

(http://i37.tinypic.com/mcactv.jpg)

sure, a 620 isn't going to be much maintenance and tire wear dollars.  but i was talking about sbks and wasn't really even talking about the expense of maintaining them.  rather, the huge expense of crashing one.

two weeks ago i saw a guy stack his new 1098.  on the cool-down lap.  at a track day.  

so not only is his boneheaded move going to cost him, it's going to cost him 5x what it would have cost him to fix a japanese bike.

dang purdy, no two ways about it.  and congrats on your season so far.  [thumbsup]

as for the discussion, several sub-topics got a bit mashed up.  tracking an s4rs, bad idea.  tracking, or more probably racing, a much cheaper 2v because you want to, probably a fun, relatlvely not super expensive idea.  tracking a superbike just cuz, fun as hell... until you crash it.  then, very bad idea.

 [laugh] yeah, that about sums it up!

and thanks for the kind words [beer]

What kind of rearsets are you guys running on the Monster 620's?  I hate the ones I have, but I couldn't find any others to fit up.

From here those look like CycleCats.

Yes, mine are cycle cat. I'm thinking about adapting some SS rearsets since you can buy them from cheaper places like woodcraft, vortex, etc. and then there would be spares avail. Just make an adapter plate with multiple holes for adjustable positioning. Not sure yet but that's what I'm thinking.

But why a Duc you say? Well, looking back over the past six years since 620s started racing in the CRA, they have been bulletproof. I'll try to attach a photo of a 620 that has been through 4 people since '02, and has nothing go wrong. Try finding an SV650 that has been raced for six years that is on the original motor...just try. It's not only this bike but all the ones running in CRA have held up better than any SV, and a lot of middleweights with nothing more than a yearly service, and regular oil changes. Some people are checking the valves after every race weekend but not everyone. These two valve motors are strong as heck! So, the actual operating cost ends up being cheap when compared to the SV which will have motor issues. It's not if but when. And it ends up being cheaper on the SV, to just buy a whole new motor. And the tire consumption is low due to the hp. I'm running the Dunlop 209s, and the Dunlop UK slicks this year and these tires seem to last forever. My 620 can get two weekends out of these tires, and I'm winning enough  

INTERESTING  :)

But for me,,, Its just the thought of having a Ducati.
I understand the 620 & SV650 concept. I know a skilled rider on those bikes would kick my butt,,,,hmmm,, maybe even a unskilled rider. I am getting faster tho.

I like power, always have,,,,,,,& yes,,,, tracking a smaller bike & learning how to manage faster corner speed would be ideal. I could likely except that,, & probably get into it. But,,,me  trying to talk a other few friends into this concept ( U cant teach a Old dog new tricks) May be difficult.

Fasterblkduc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nice bike. Good luck on run at the Championship,,,, I am rooting for ya  :),,, U 2 Jarel

That's a fantastic idea, why didn't I think of that!?!?!  Most of my teammates are on SS's and running Woodcrafts so it would definitely be good from a spares perspective.  Do you guys have a machine shop?  If not I can get some billet ones made by our CNC guy, I just need to send him some measurements.  That will actually help me out for foot positioning as well if the plates space the footpegs out a little farther, I can't keep my feet on the pegs right now as they hit the up pipes on the exhaust.  I'm gonna do it this week!  Let me know if you guys need any and I'll get some extras made.

To be fair, SVs that aren't built are just as reliable as a 620 will ever be.  And the day somebody can squeeze 88-90hp out of a 620 will be a cold one in hell.

However, if the 620 fits in a class nicely then I'm sure it's a ton of fun to race. 

My 05 SV that had just won WERA national endurance and national LWT championships plus a 2nd place in the SV650 cup race with like 4 pictures of the bike in RRW the month I bought it, cost a grand total of $4k painted the way I wanted and ready to race.  I did a full season almost every weekend from Feb-Oct and 5 crashes and never had a single issue.  Cost very little to repair crash damage thanks to the dirt cheap SV parts (compare a set of frame sliders for a 620 vs and SV650, OUCH!).  The 03+ have a weak crankshaft and will blow up after 1 season of endurance racing or about 2 seasons of sprint racing.  Grand total to replace the engine is under $1k.  Also, the 99-02s don't have the crankshaft issues and there are a LOT of those out there with their original motors (I know a guy thats been racing the same SV since ~2000 with the stock motor, though he has rebuilt it every couple of seasons to keep it fresh)

granted its not a very cool bike and a well built 620 could probably handle better than the SV (SV front end is a joke IMO) but I can't imagine any duc being cheaper to race than an SV650...

I will say I freakin hate the guys that run a 1000SS in LWT SBK.  I know they're heavy but holy crap are they fast in a straight line!

btw, sweat 620!

Oh heck yeah! ;D I don't have a machine shop at my disposal anymore so getting things built now is more difficult for me. That's why I was waiting until over winter to sort this out. If you are making some plates and can make extras, I could use two sets ( four plates), since my teammate is setting one up to race too. I can send some cash, let me know. [thumbsup] Just pm me here anytime and I can give you my contact info.

A plate with multiple mounting holes seems like a real simple fix. I've seen it done recently on some of the 450 motos, or "supersingles". I'll look for a picture of what I was thinking would work here.
For yours, I think just making spacers to move the plate out some would work. You could just make the spacers to whatever length you need to get the proper clearance.

Thanks!

See, I'm talking about the cost of racing the two if compared over a few years. You just listed several issues that the SVs have that the Ducs don't. Your friend with the 2000 has kept it going by rebuilding every other season and that's exactly what it takes to make them go. You are right about plentiful spares and cheap initial purchase but you would be amazed at how little I have in mine (cost). I did all the work myself so that helps but I bought a crashed 620 for $2500, and put in another $3000 which is not bad at all.
Realistically, they are close. The SV is cheaper to buy but the 620 has a very bullet proof motor that requires very little TLC, and keeps on ticking. The SV has lots of cheap spares, but the Duc has a far superior front end that takes less to get it sweet.
Daryl, I know what you're saying...keep the SV stock and it holds up much better but I'm telling you guys, I've seen a lot of the 620s raced now for several years and they really are holding together better than the SVs.  In conclusion...I think they are very close in overall cost when figured over a few years.
But who cares...you know it's a slow weekend and none of us are out on the track when we are sitting here debating this junk [laugh] [beer]

Here's one in progress for a 450 moto conversion. It wouldn't have to be as big as this one, and could look a lot cleaner but you get the idea.

(http://i34.tinypic.com/ylcar.jpg)

Yeah, something like that could work, the only issue we'll have on the Monster is flex since those tabs that hold the rearsets on are just two little tabs off the bottom of the frame rather than bolting right into the frame as on that motard bike.  That's why I was thinking that a thicker billet piece might be better than thin steel.  We'll need something that can take the side load of the rider's weight on the pegs.  I'll get the machinist over to take a look at it and we'll see what he comes up with.

Well, the rearset plate idea is not dead but taking WAY longer than I thought it would.  Looks like it might be something that can finally be ready for next season.  I just put some 10mm spacers behind the bolts to get them out a little wider for now.  In the meantime, I did finally get my first race weekend done on the Monster!  I took it out to Motorsports Park Hastings this past weekend for the CCS races.  It took all of one lap in the track day on Saturday to figure out the geometry was still too steep, it was head-shaking too much and was falling in through the corners.  After waiting for a couple hours of rain to pass, I got some more laps in the afternoon with the front end raised and rear end lowered, and it was handling much better.  It's still just a tad steep, but I can't lower it any more in the rear without machining down the spacers I have installed in the U arm.  Corner entry on it is nearly perfect, it feels as good any any bike I've ridden going in, turn-in is very low-effort and it holds a line very well.  The riding position still needs some tweaks, it's not ideal.  I need to get the footpegs back a little farther, which will require having the up-pipes on the exhaust reshaped to be lower.  The motor pulled well, and I had no mechanical problems at all the whole weekend other than my oil breather filter was spitting out oil, so I had to replace it with the patented Ducati Corse 900 Monster Oil Breather Catch Kit (aka. a water bottle with a rag stuffed inside...).  Overall it was a very enjoyable weekend, I did 4 races on Sunday, never crashed or had any "oops" moments, and had the best looking bike in the Lightweight class!  I was only .5 secs off my fastest pace ever at that track on the brand new bike, so it's looking pretty good for the Monster as as Lightweight class race platform!

Cool! sounds like you're shaking the bugs out. .5 secs away from your best time is a great way to start on the 900. Was your best time on a SV?

I'm still interested in a couple of sets of rearset adapter plates. Let me know what you figure out.

Congrats on getting the bike on the grid [beer]  You should come up and run the last weekend with CRA. We'll be on the new short course for the first time at BIR! 19th-21st, with a trackaddix day on the 18th to give us an extra day to learn the track...can't wait!

I'm ahead in the UL championship by 23 points going into this last weekend...fingers crossed!

My best time at Hastings was on the Ninja 650R in 2006, 1:41.9, it was good enough for a podium in the LW Am class back then.  I used to race an SV back in '04/'05 but that track wasn't built yet. 

Good luck in wrapping up the championship!  [clap]

I've had the Monster racer out at two more track days since the last update, last Monday at Putnam Park at the Ducati-only track day following the Indy GP, and then today at the TrackAddix MotoMonday event at Mid-America Motorplex.  It's really working out well, I'm having a lot of fun on the bike and am coming to terms with how to ride the air-cooled motor fast (short-shift and ride the torque curve).  I had never been to Putnam before so I had no lap times to compare to there, but I liked the track and after I figured out a decent line through the blind turns I was going pretty good in the afternoon in the "A" session.  MAM is my home track, so I know exactly what the score is there, and the Monster is right on track.  I was less than 1 sec off the fastest lap I've ever done there on my 1098, and I think the 1098 is AT LEAST 2 secs faster on the front straight so that means I'm carrying more speed everywhere else on the track on the Monster.  Pretty cool what you can do with a light and easy to ride bike.  Our last race weekend of the year is in 2 weeks at MAM, I'm looking forward to it!  [thumbsup]

Cool, good job! Once you get it set up just right, you'll go even faster. MAM is fun. I haven't had my Monster on it yet, only a middleweight but i would like to bring it down there.

Keep us posted on how you're doing on it [thumbsup]

My race season is officially over following the final CCS weekend at MAM.  Unfortunately I only got to race in one class (Thunderbike) due to business commitments keeping me away from the track, but even just doing one race was a total blast!  I started in dead last, worked my way past the Buells to maintain a little Ducati pride, and finished 2nd in the class.  I was hoping to battle for the win, but after the awesome wheelie I did at the start, it was going to be very difficult to catch back up to the leader.  He ended up 9 secs ahead of me at the finish, and I was 15 secs ahead of the guy behind me.  So sad that the season is over, but I'm really looking forward to next year since I'll have a little time over the winter to really get the Monster dialed in, get the suspension redone, shave a little more weight, raise the compression and get the dual-spark setup working.  I'm already dead-even with the XB-12R's on the straight, so if I can squeeze out another 5 hp it should be a lot of fun!

Here are me and the Monster working hard for the Ducati pride!
(http://www.DucatiOmaha.com/images/MonsterMAM.jpg)

I am not racing my 98Monster900...but it is my track pregnant dog...which has slowly evolved through some different phases and looks..

when I got it, I pretty much changed the tires and took off the streetfighter lights the guy had on it  and put on a crashable clutch cover as apposed the the cut plastic stocker the guy had on it and ran it like this...
(http://www.mad-ducati.com/Gallery/bsandusky/G381/JON_4038.JPG)

then I put in some winter wrenching time and had picked up this skin job from a DML'r that was hung with brake tubing that was custom bent to hang off of various points of the bike for support. I painted it up myself in a makeshift EZ-Up turned into a paint booth in the cold heated by a propane tent heater and bolted on some rear sets that I traded for and VOILA...

http://www.mad-ducati.com/GalleryShowTN.php?GalleryId=436 (http://www.mad-ducati.com/GalleryShowTN.php?GalleryId=436)

the second track date with that set-up, I had a brake problem and ended up putting the bike down in a low side and trashed the plastics, so it was off to the next incarnation. I had picked up a spare parts kit (sorta) for the Cycle Cat parts that got trashed too. There was a Ducati Dealer (Bogarts Motorsports in Alabama) who was utterly fed up with the whole Cycle Cat debacle that he had a Multistrada kit that had a couple bits missing (but had what I needed in it) that he sold to me at a  stupidly deeply discounted price just to be rid of it. I had a bracket fabbed up for the steering head downtube for bolting on a proper fairing stay and have a 748/916/996/998 upper with double bubble windscreen hung. I have gotten rid of the MacGuyver'd 2 into 1 exhaust that the guy I bought the bike from made for it and hung a proper header with Silmotor pipes. I had the adjustable Showa 888 forks that are on it resprung and resealed and got a fully adjustable Ohlins rear on it now. Also I am having a new set of bearings installed on a set of red 5 Spoke Marchesini wheeels from a Senna style SS900 and am hitting the track this coming Monday and Tuesday with some new rubber booties as well!