Monster Race Bikes

[JDS 07 S4Rs]

HOLY EXHAUST TUBE DIAMETER!!  How big are those primary tubes on the 1098?

Not sure,, but I think 70 mm. I think they are the Full Termi's

[fasterblkduc]

a monster is a street bike.  if you want a track bike, esp a "competitive" track bike, get a track bike...

why does staying under 1000cc matter?

and yes, a 999R is a superbike.. but there's a lot of debate about whether or not it's a *good* superbike.  especially, and if you're already talking those kinds of $$$, in light of, say, an 848.  or 1098.  both farrrr better track bikes that the 749/999.  but personally i don't know why you would track any ducati, unless someone was paying you to do so.  or at least providing the bike and paying for it when it goes down.  or you have lots of cash.

True for the most part but there are exceptions. In some clubs, a 900SS or Monster is lightweight legal. The SS takes less work to make race ready but either of these is competitive against the SV. And the 620 fits into some clubs nicely too. In the CRA, the 620 is Ultralight SS legal and dominates the class. In fact, I'm two weekends away from hopefully winning the championship on my 620.
But why a Duc you say? Well, looking back over the past six years since 620s started racing in the CRA, they have been bulletproof. I'll try to attach a photo of a 620 that has been through 4 people since '02, and has nothing go wrong. Try finding an SV650 that has been raced for six years that is on the original motor...just try. It's not only this bike but all the ones running in CRA have held up better than any SV, and a lot of middleweights with nothing more than a yearly service, and regular oil changes. Some people are checking the valves after every race weekend but not everyone. These two valve motors are strong as heck! So, the actual operating cost ends up being cheap when compared to the SV which will have motor issues. It's not if but when. And it ends up being cheaper on the SV, to just buy a whole new motor. And the tire consumption is low due to the hp. I'm running the Dunlop 209s, and the Dunlop UK slicks this year and these tires seem to last forever. My 620 can get two weekends out of these tires, and I'm winning enough Dunlop contingency to pay for most of them
So, I agree that a Ducati superbike may not be the best choice but it depends on what you want to do. Your S4rs is NOT a good idea if you want to race. It will not be competitive and is not a good idea at all. If you want to race a Duc, go two-valve and check your clubs rules to see if the bike will even be competitive.

Here's the pic. I'm in front. The Monster behind me has been raced hard by four people with ZERO issues! That bike is fast too!

[fasterblkduc]

another of mine

[gm2]

sure, a 620 isn't going to be much maintenance and tire wear dollars.  but i was talking about sbks and wasn't really even talking about the expense of maintaining them.  rather, the huge expense of crashing one.

two weeks ago i saw a guy stack his new 1098.  on the cool-down lap.  at a track day.  

so not only is his boneheaded move going to cost him, it's going to cost him 5x what it would have cost him to fix a japanese bike.

[gm2]

another of mine

dang purdy, no two ways about it.  and congrats on your season so far. 

as for the discussion, several sub-topics got a bit mashed up.  tracking an s4rs, bad idea.  tracking, or more probably racing, a much cheaper 2v because you want to, probably a fun, relatlvely not super expensive idea.  tracking a superbike just cuz, fun as hell... until you crash it.  then, very bad idea.

[fasterblkduc]

  yeah, that about sums it up!

and thanks for the kind words

[jarelj]

What kind of rearsets are you guys running on the Monster 620's?  I hate the ones I have, but I couldn't find any others to fit up.

[darylbowden]

What kind of rearsets are you guys running on the Monster 620's?  I hate the ones I have, but I couldn't find any others to fit up.

From here those look like CycleCats.

[fasterblkduc]

Yes, mine are cycle cat. I'm thinking about adapting some SS rearsets since you can buy them from cheaper places like woodcraft, vortex, etc. and then there would be spares avail. Just make an adapter plate with multiple holes for adjustable positioning. Not sure yet but that's what I'm thinking.

[JDS 07 S4Rs]

But why a Duc you say? Well, looking back over the past six years since 620s started racing in the CRA, they have been bulletproof. I'll try to attach a photo of a 620 that has been through 4 people since '02, and has nothing go wrong. Try finding an SV650 that has been raced for six years that is on the original motor...just try. It's not only this bike but all the ones running in CRA have held up better than any SV, and a lot of middleweights with nothing more than a yearly service, and regular oil changes. Some people are checking the valves after every race weekend but not everyone. These two valve motors are strong as heck! So, the actual operating cost ends up being cheap when compared to the SV which will have motor issues. It's not if but when. And it ends up being cheaper on the SV, to just buy a whole new motor. And the tire consumption is low due to the hp. I'm running the Dunlop 209s, and the Dunlop UK slicks this year and these tires seem to last forever. My 620 can get two weekends out of these tires, and I'm winning enough

INTERESTING  

But for me,,, Its just the thought of having a Ducati.
I understand the 620 & SV650 concept. I know a skilled rider on those bikes would kick my butt,,,,hmmm,, maybe even a unskilled rider. I am getting faster tho.

I like power, always have,,,,,,,& yes,,,, tracking a smaller bike & learning how to manage faster corner speed would be ideal. I could likely except that,, & probably get into it. But,,,me  trying to talk a other few friends into this concept ( U cant teach a Old dog new tricks) May be difficult.

Fasterblkduc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,nice bike. Good luck on run at the Championship,,,, I am rooting for ya  ,,, U 2 Jarel

[jarelj]

Yes, mine are cycle cat. I'm thinking about adapting some SS rearsets since you can buy them from cheaper places like woodcraft, vortex, etc. and then there would be spares avail. Just make an adapter plate with multiple holes for adjustable positioning. Not sure yet but that's what I'm thinking.

That's a fantastic idea, why didn't I think of that!?!?!  Most of my teammates are on SS's and running Woodcrafts so it would definitely be good from a spares perspective.  Do you guys have a machine shop?  If not I can get some billet ones made by our CNC guy, I just need to send him some measurements.  That will actually help me out for foot positioning as well if the plates space the footpegs out a little farther, I can't keep my feet on the pegs right now as they hit the up pipes on the exhaust.  I'm gonna do it this week!  Let me know if you guys need any and I'll get some extras made.

[darylbowden]

True for the most part but there are exceptions. In some clubs, a 900SS or Monster is lightweight legal. The SS takes less work to make race ready but either of these is competitive against the SV. And the 620 fits into some clubs nicely too. In the CRA, the 620 is Ultralight SS legal and dominates the class. In fact, I'm two weekends away from hopefully winning the championship on my 620.
But why a Duc you say? Well, looking back over the past six years since 620s started racing in the CRA, they have been bulletproof. I'll try to attach a photo of a 620 that has been through 4 people since '02, and has nothing go wrong. Try finding an SV650 that has been raced for six years that is on the original motor...just try. It's not only this bike but all the ones running in CRA have held up better than any SV, and a lot of middleweights with nothing more than a yearly service, and regular oil changes. Some people are checking the valves after every race weekend but not everyone. These two valve motors are strong as heck! So, the actual operating cost ends up being cheap when compared to the SV which will have motor issues. It's not if but when. And it ends up being cheaper on the SV, to just buy a whole new motor. And the tire consumption is low due to the hp. I'm running the Dunlop 209s, and the Dunlop UK slicks this year and these tires seem to last forever. My 620 can get two weekends out of these tires, and I'm winning enough Dunlop contingency to pay for most of them

To be fair, SVs that aren't built are just as reliable as a 620 will ever be.  And the day somebody can squeeze 88-90hp out of a 620 will be a cold one in hell.

However, if the 620 fits in a class nicely then I'm sure it's a ton of fun to race. 

[woodyracing]

True for the most part but there are exceptions. In some clubs, a 900SS or Monster is lightweight legal. The SS takes less work to make race ready but either of these is competitive against the SV. And the 620 fits into some clubs nicely too. In the CRA, the 620 is Ultralight SS legal and dominates the class. In fact, I'm two weekends away from hopefully winning the championship on my 620.
But why a Duc you say? Well, looking back over the past six years since 620s started racing in the CRA, they have been bulletproof. I'll try to attach a photo of a 620 that has been through 4 people since '02, and has nothing go wrong. Try finding an SV650 that has been raced for six years that is on the original motor...just try. It's not only this bike but all the ones running in CRA have held up better than any SV, and a lot of middleweights with nothing more than a yearly service, and regular oil changes. Some people are checking the valves after every race weekend but not everyone. These two valve motors are strong as heck! So, the actual operating cost ends up being cheap when compared to the SV which will have motor issues. It's not if but when. And it ends up being cheaper on the SV, to just buy a whole new motor. And the tire consumption is low due to the hp. I'm running the Dunlop 209s, and the Dunlop UK slicks this year and these tires seem to last forever. My 620 can get two weekends out of these tires, and I'm winning enough Dunlop contingency to pay for most of them
So, I agree that a Ducati superbike may not be the best choice but it depends on what you want to do. Your S4rs is NOT a good idea if you want to race. It will not be competitive and is not a good idea at all. If you want to race a Duc, go two-valve and check your clubs rules to see if the bike will even be competitive.

Here's the pic. I'm in front. The Monster behind me has been raced hard by four people with ZERO issues! That bike is fast too!

My 05 SV that had just won WERA national endurance and national LWT championships plus a 2nd place in the SV650 cup race with like 4 pictures of the bike in RRW the month I bought it, cost a grand total of $4k painted the way I wanted and ready to race.  I did a full season almost every weekend from Feb-Oct and 5 crashes and never had a single issue.  Cost very little to repair crash damage thanks to the dirt cheap SV parts (compare a set of frame sliders for a 620 vs and SV650, OUCH!).  The 03+ have a weak crankshaft and will blow up after 1 season of endurance racing or about 2 seasons of sprint racing.  Grand total to replace the engine is under $1k.  Also, the 99-02s don't have the crankshaft issues and there are a LOT of those out there with their original motors (I know a guy thats been racing the same SV since ~2000 with the stock motor, though he has rebuilt it every couple of seasons to keep it fresh)

granted its not a very cool bike and a well built 620 could probably handle better than the SV (SV front end is a joke IMO) but I can't imagine any duc being cheaper to race than an SV650...

I will say I freakin hate the guys that run a 1000SS in LWT SBK.  I know they're heavy but holy crap are they fast in a straight line!

btw, sweat 620!

[fasterblkduc]

That's a fantastic idea, why didn't I think of that!?!?!  Most of my teammates are on SS's and running Woodcrafts so it would definitely be good from a spares perspective.  Do you guys have a machine shop?  If not I can get some billet ones made by our CNC guy, I just need to send him some measurements.  That will actually help me out for foot positioning as well if the plates space the footpegs out a little farther, I can't keep my feet on the pegs right now as they hit the up pipes on the exhaust.  I'm gonna do it this week!  Let me know if you guys need any and I'll get some extras made.

Oh heck yeah! I don't have a machine shop at my disposal anymore so getting things built now is more difficult for me. That's why I was waiting until over winter to sort this out. If you are making some plates and can make extras, I could use two sets ( four plates), since my teammate is setting one up to race too. I can send some cash, let me know. Just pm me here anytime and I can give you my contact info.

A plate with multiple mounting holes seems like a real simple fix. I've seen it done recently on some of the 450 motos, or "supersingles". I'll look for a picture of what I was thinking would work here.
For yours, I think just making spacers to move the plate out some would work. You could just make the spacers to whatever length you need to get the proper clearance.

[fasterblkduc]

My 05 SV that had just won WERA national endurance and national LWT championships plus a 2nd place in the SV650 cup race with like 4 pictures of the bike in RRW the month I bought it, cost a grand total of $4k painted the way I wanted and ready to race.  I did a full season almost every weekend from Feb-Oct and 5 crashes and never had a single issue.  Cost very little to repair crash damage thanks to the dirt cheap SV parts (compare a set of frame sliders for a 620 vs and SV650, OUCH!).  The 03+ have a weak crankshaft and will blow up after 1 season of endurance racing or about 2 seasons of sprint racing.  Grand total to replace the engine is under $1k.  Also, the 99-02s don't have the crankshaft issues and there are a LOT of those out there with their original motors (I know a guy thats been racing the same SV since ~2000 with the stock motor, though he has rebuilt it every couple of seasons to keep it fresh)

granted its not a very cool bike and a well built 620 could probably handle better than the SV (SV front end is a joke IMO) but I can't imagine any duc being cheaper to race than an SV650...

I will say I freakin hate the guys that run a 1000SS in LWT SBK.  I know they're heavy but holy crap are they fast in a straight line!

btw, sweat 620!

Thanks!

See, I'm talking about the cost of racing the two if compared over a few years. You just listed several issues that the SVs have that the Ducs don't. Your friend with the 2000 has kept it going by rebuilding every other season and that's exactly what it takes to make them go. You are right about plentiful spares and cheap initial purchase but you would be amazed at how little I have in mine (cost). I did all the work myself so that helps but I bought a crashed 620 for $2500, and put in another $3000 which is not bad at all.
Realistically, they are close. The SV is cheaper to buy but the 620 has a very bullet proof motor that requires very little TLC, and keeps on ticking. The SV has lots of cheap spares, but the Duc has a far superior front end that takes less to get it sweet.
Daryl, I know what you're saying...keep the SV stock and it holds up much better but I'm telling you guys, I've seen a lot of the 620s raced now for several years and they really are holding together better than the SVs.  In conclusion...I think they are very close in overall cost when figured over a few years.
But who cares...you know it's a slow weekend and none of us are out on the track when we are sitting here debating this junk