Ducati Monster Forum

Hey folks,

I installed a set of Motocreations Boomtubes on my 2003 M800 and have been enjoying them for the better part of a decade.... Then last weekend I noticed it was louder. One of the baffles had come undone and is missing, presumably lying somewhere on the highway.

I'm not too fussed about the extra volume, but I'd like both cylinders to see the same amount of back pressure. So I'm looking for anyone with a Boomtube (standard) baffle they no longer use and are willing to part with for the right price.

Plan B will be removing the remaining baffle. Mark had told me that the standard baffles I purchased did not require an ECU change, but I never asked if I'd need to ECU tune if I removed the baffles. Does anyone have an insight on this?

Thanks.

Hmm didn't know those came with baffles. Love those BoomTubes and also those M800s. Posta photo. I think it will be a challenge to find another baffle for those. BoomTubes seem like just a dream now they're so unobtainium. Cycle Cat and Road Racing bits are easier to find. Good luck though. Have you thought about maybe fabricating a new one?

Yeah I'm probably going to drill out the rivets on the remaining baffle, pull it and see how loud it is. If it's bone splitting I'll see how hard it will be to duplicate it and then rivet them back in. More rivets this time.

Funny story, just 2 weeks back I got pulled over for loud pipes, I had the cop shine a light so he could see the baffles, to prove they weren't straight pipes. Since he couldn't quote me the relevant dB limit he let me go. So one more reason to get the baffles back in, is to continue smart mouthing traffic cops.

(http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b487/Thump1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdsewok3g.jpg) (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/Thump1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsdsewok3g.jpg.html)

I have no first hand knowledge of tuning these pipes. I would hazard a guess that baffles and a dyno tune with appropriate airbox/intake mods would give the best performance outcome. I guess a stock airbox and baffles enables you to get away with a stock tune. Although I defer to Marks opinion and expertise, my feeling is that the totally oem, stock bike could use a tune by whatever means and more so with a custom exhaust.

Snake oil.

I do remember Mark saying a tune was not needed with the baffles.  I also remember Mark saying the Boom Tubes really didn't add to performance.

They do look more show than go. That gave me the impression that a tune might be in order to restore performance back to stock levels since the pipes greatly diverge in design from oem. Maybe they just work ok, but I would be expecting some rough throttle transitions at various rpm (conjecture on my part). Or I could be wrong ;D

I think it's a great idea to replicate the baffles using the other as a template. [thumbsup]

No definitely not performance, a bit less restrictive than stock, and about 30lb lighter. Neither show nor go, more 'heard but not seen' to paraphrase Mark.

Rode the bike stock for 9 seasons, then installed these without a tune and rode for another 9. No noticeable difference in performance except the weight loss really, based on my 'feel gauge'. Still hates low revs, still stays in 1st gear in the city. I don't take this one to the track and its more than enough to break plenty of road laws.

I don't know much about ECU tuning. AFAIK the M800 has open loop ECU, no feedback sensors, and all the Boomtubes effectively do is reduce some exhaust restriction. The question is really whether a tune is necessary (ie will I melt something if I go baffle-free straight pipes) vs some degrees of improvement I'd get for the trouble. First step is to pull that remaining baffle either way. I just winterized it so I have some time to mess with it.

Thanks folks for the input, please let me know if my assumptions above are way off.

Wow. A 30 lb weight loss is a pretty good performance mod if engine performance is about the same. [thumbsup]

If you choose to do so, open loop makes the tuning options easier and will allow the ECU PCV/Rexxer reflash or dyno tune options to manage the wholè rev range. Has Mark been handling the tuning, servicing, etc?

The stock ECU is Euro2 which despite being less lean than later editions, is still too lean.

You will shake/bang your head for not doing it nine/eighteen years ago, but anyway.... get a proper tune done on a bench by an EXPERIENCED tuner. Cut the air filter box top and use a 'race' filter while you have the tuning done.

You will NOT regret it.

 [thumbsup]

Oh you guys are going to make me spend some money...

stopintime: I am in Toronto, haven't had good experiences with authorized Ducati shops, which changed hands a few times since 2004. I have a good independent mechanic, not sure about his tuning experence (I thought the ECU is 5.9M on the 2003 M800 and not re-mappable, gotta read up on this). Does anyone have a recommendation for a good ECU tuner in Ontario?

koko64: Mark just sold me the pipes and emailed some tips for the install. I was just reading your raised airbox mod thread (2016), looking at options to open mine up. Not that I aspire to ride in the rain, but are there issues with the open airbox allowing water spray in? I already switched to a K&N filter but the box is stock.

And yes, the 30lb weight drop would've been great, if I hadn't put about 20lb onto myself.

Thanks for the encouragement fellas, see how easy it was to twist my arm?

Depending on the degree of love you have for your bike (or maybe rather what the bike does to you) it can be worth while to travel to an expert - or ship the bike there.

The air box lid is easy to cut open. Rain is not an issue. Any moisture getting by the filter is VERY quickly burned in the combustion chambers.

Just GoogleMaps'd Toronto  [Dolph]  You're a day away from one or more experts. I can't remeber who, but I think DucPainter knows. To the east Clubhouse MotorSports and there must be more in the direction of NYC?

I recall seeing dyno info around this place somewhere showing M1100 fitted with Boomtubes was down 6hp and down 4 ft/lbs torque.  Not a huge loss of power but certainly "didn't really add to performance" is a...... typically..... um.... generous assessment by... um.... the product manufacturer.

My Boomtube cynicism aside, I concur with everybody else: An expert ECU tune is going to do nothing but good  [thumbsup].

Can't do any better than Eric at Clubhousemotorsports.com ...seriously.

Great to have someone of that calibre nearby.

A dead stock bike could use a good tune, let alone one with radical pipes, even more so with a US spec ecu vs the Euro spec we get.

Am I threadjacking my own thread here? Anyways, here's what I learned:

I went and got myself some education on the subject. Brad Black's site is full of detailed technical info with a couple pages devoted to runs on this model. Then I spoke to Eric at Clubhouse Motorsports, who was super generous with his time and advice:

The 2003 M800 does have an open loop 5.9M ECU. (A 5AM ECU replacement may work, and also may not). You can adjust the baseline idle on the 5.9M but not the map, so I'd need a piggyback device to benefit from a dyno tune.
The PCV isn't compatible, meaning I would need a PC 3.

If the airbox stays closed, and the pipes are the only real change, an idle adjustment with standard dealership tuning software should be adequate.

On the other hand, if I open the airbox I would need the ECU flashed with a DP map. Given the small price difference, I'd just buy an extra 5.9M with the DP map and immobilizer disabled. Then get that baseline idle adjustment.

He kinda talked me down from adding a PC3 and dyno tune - apparently the 5.9M's are finicky and fragile,  the PC3's have their issues, and he's seen problems with the combination. Since I am 'easily satisfied' I'd likely be thrilled at the improvement of an open airbox, DP map and straight pipes. I could always do a dyno run at a later date just to check the AFR's to see if anything is way off.

Here's a question: if a 5AM ECU did theoretically work, my understanding is that its map is adjustable, sparing the addition of the PC3? This may put a dyno back on the table.

Looking forward to your feedback.

"Adequate"? What does that have to do with this?   [laugh]


If I was invited and welcomed by Eric, I'd run towards the light. There are many basic adjustments that should be done before a tune and other mods. Guys like him do that quite budget friendly because they diagnose well, work fast and the results tend to be spot on. Finally - you/he will see if there are further gains by tuning on a Dyno.

Dyno before basic service work.
Dyno after basic service work.
Custom tune if worth it.
This way you'll learn what works and what doesn't.

Personally, I wouldn't pay much for a canned tune. The real, and funny, gains come from a custom tune. Example: I removed my PC3 to tune directly into the ECU (flashing). Just for entertainment purposes we did a Dyno run with the unaltered DP ECU. The AF ratio was perfect all along the rev range. Even my highly tuned 839cc engine got enough fuel from an ECU sold for a much 'softer' engine, BUT that is not what extract the top 8-10-12-.... bhp. If this is relevant in your case is not known until the basic work and a Dyno run is done.


Again: "adequate"?  [bang] [laugh]

Hmmm, I guess I wasn't clear.

Eric talked me out of a dyno. He suggested the 2 plans I wrote above, given the limitation of my ECU and trouble in his experience with piggybacking a PC3 onto it.

Adequate with respect to AFR. Also meaning not opening a can of worms for performance gains I haven't been missing. Again, his suggestion. I'm not against fun, but I don't want to break an expensive black box after having been advised against it.

I'm not doubting that you're correct about untapped performance, so I'm looking for options. From what I've read, a 5AM has tunable maps and may (MAY) work on my bike, if true then yes to a custom tune at the dyno. I just need to find a reasonably priced used 5AM to see if it runs this machine.

If not, then I'll go with Eric's advice, which is the DP flashed ECU + airbox mod, though your emoji seems to be downvoting that, sorry for upsetting the l'il guy.  ;)

From Brad's site, the stock AFR was out of whack even with slip-ons as the only mod, and only slightly improved with idle trim:

https://www.bikeboy.org/800monster.html

I want to address AFR primarily, performance gains will follow.

Eric should have a SR2 800 engine and ECU ...

Was a project of mine ... Due to an accident, never saw life ... 

Sorry about the accident, but thanks for the tip. The specs say that would be the 5AM. I gotta do a bit more reading to see if anyone has used one on an M800 with success. It may be the cleanest solution for my bike to get a custom tune.

btw I saw a post of yours from 2016 about a repair manual / electrical schematic (dead link though):


My hardcopy owners manual references a schematic, and even has a legend, but no schematic. Ditto for the downloaded version. Would you still have this and willling to upload again?  [drool]

Let me dig, the pc/hdd where that was ... well, was ... BUT, I might have it somewhere ...

The ECU Eric has is a 5AM from a SR2 800 ...

Oh that would be super, if you are able. And if its gone to computer heaven, I appreciate the effort either way.

In the interest of proper search indexing, I'll start a new thread re: custom tuning experiences for the M800, including the 5AM replacement.

Many thanks to everyone who offered advice and/or the kick in the pants I needed to go this route. It will be an exciting project for the winter. Cheers.

Both level 3 Ducati master techs I've known have disdain for piggyback ECU rigs. Their general opinion is the DP map is solid and all you need for a street bike. For those who want the extra performance, they dyno & tune but unless it's a superbike with track fairings & slicks on it they will typically try and talk you out of doing that. Dynos blow engines that aren't 100%, so unless they just did a valve check/clearance plus fresh belts & oil they are loath to dyno. The track bike engines are more closely monitored and continually refreshed, street bike engines are just maintained.

I was going to go with PCIII once upon a time but then somebody told me they were hot garbage and to just do a DP ECU/airbox and declare victory.

Unless the engine is already in trouble and on the way out anyway bad dyno operators blow engines.  Yes, it is good to avoid piggy backs if you can.  I was happy with the DP map on the 1000, nice improvement in HP, torque and rideability.  The fuel curve could have been leaner and the timing advance curve been better though.

I appreciate the additional information. For now I think I will go that route - pull the baffle, open the airbox, flash the ECU to the DP map. The more I've read the less I like the idea of a piggyback.

As far as flashing goes, I've been directed to David at Rexxer or Bobby at HSBK Racing (was this formerly Houston superbikes?their website puts them in Pennsylvania so I am not sure).

There is a local shop that tells me they can dyno and build a custom map and then flash it to my ECU - it won't be further adjustable without a re-flash, but this is the most customized option I've got, for the most dollars. I may save this until it's time again for a valve adjustment, belt change, compression check etc, make sure everything is tip top before putting the bike and my wallet through a stress test. Another year or two to enjoy the improvements from the canned racing map.

Does anyone have advice or concerns about where to get the DP map?

Toronto?  Maybe Doug Logfren  if he is still in Mn and you can locate him.

He is still in MN ...

Addendum - it was a long crappy winter.

I sent the ECU out to HSBK, who flashed it to DP specs, got it back real fast despite crossing the border.

Engine runs well in the garage, idles smooth, smells a bit rich as expected, now for the TPS reset and ARRRGGH - the local shop who said he can do it now tells me he uses TuneECU, which is only for 5AM's, not my old 59M. Which means I need to wait in line for a month or so for the Ducati dealer and their DDS....

(gonna ride it anyway in the meantime)

 [thumbsup]
Let us know after the fine tune.

Update: Got the TPS reset at the last second as I was heading out of town for a 2K km tour of northern Ontario.

First thing's first - anyone in riding distance I highly recommend the Algoma loop, Sudbury- Sault St Marie-Wawa-Chapleau, then south on the 129 (tail of the dragon north), Manitoulin Island, ferry to Tobermory. All grand views and big sweeping curves of the Canadian Shield and the Great Lakes. Best riding I've done outside of proper mountains.

The bike ran beautifully - most of the route was done in 4th and 5th gear, lots of elevation changes, no issues with cruising low rpm stuttering like before. In town the improved response in 2nd around corners was very noticeable.

Pulled the plugs at home - tanned and pretty like in the textbook. Bonus - the soot fouling from exhaust reversion is gone with the straight pipes, shoulda pulled those baffles long ago. They probably made a 3dB change at most, so they were basically a charade for traffic cops.

In short, all success no regrets. Thanks fellas for pointing me in this direction.

 8) [thumbsup]

 [thumbsup] good outcome.
That route sounds great. Any pics?