Baffles for Motocreations Boomtubes

[ungeheuer]

......I also remember Mark saying the Boom Tubes really didn't add to performance.

I recall seeing dyno info around this place somewhere showing M1100 fitted with Boomtubes was down 6hp and down 4 ft/lbs torque.  Not a huge loss of power but certainly "didn't really add to performance" is a...... typically..... um.... generous assessment by... um.... the product manufacturer.

My Boomtube cynicism aside, I concur with everybody else: An expert ECU tune is going to do nothing but good  .

[ducpainter]

Just GoogleMaps'd Toronto    You're a day away from one or more experts. I can't remeber who, but I think DucPainter knows. To the east Clubhouse MotorSports and there must be more in the direction of NYC?

Can't do any better than Eric at Clubhousemotorsports.com ...seriously.

[koko64]

Can't do any better than Eric at Clubhousemotorsports.com ...seriously.

Great to have someone of that calibre nearby.

A dead stock bike could use a good tune, let alone one with radical pipes, even more so with a US spec ecu vs the Euro spec we get.

[thump]

Am I threadjacking my own thread here? Anyways, here's what I learned:

I went and got myself some education on the subject. Brad Black's site is full of detailed technical info with a couple pages devoted to runs on this model. Then I spoke to Eric at Clubhouse Motorsports, who was super generous with his time and advice:

The 2003 M800 does have an open loop 5.9M ECU. (A 5AM ECU replacement may work, and also may not). You can adjust the baseline idle on the 5.9M but not the map, so I'd need a piggyback device to benefit from a dyno tune.
The PCV isn't compatible, meaning I would need a PC 3.

If the airbox stays closed, and the pipes are the only real change, an idle adjustment with standard dealership tuning software should be adequate.

On the other hand, if I open the airbox I would need the ECU flashed with a DP map. Given the small price difference, I'd just buy an extra 5.9M with the DP map and immobilizer disabled. Then get that baseline idle adjustment.

He kinda talked me down from adding a PC3 and dyno tune - apparently the 5.9M's are finicky and fragile,  the PC3's have their issues, and he's seen problems with the combination. Since I am 'easily satisfied' I'd likely be thrilled at the improvement of an open airbox, DP map and straight pipes. I could always do a dyno run at a later date just to check the AFR's to see if anything is way off.

Here's a question: if a 5AM ECU did theoretically work, my understanding is that its map is adjustable, sparing the addition of the PC3? This may put a dyno back on the table.

Looking forward to your feedback.

[stopintime]

"Adequate"? What does that have to do with this?   


If I was invited and welcomed by Eric, I'd run towards the light. There are many basic adjustments that should be done before a tune and other mods. Guys like him do that quite budget friendly because they diagnose well, work fast and the results tend to be spot on. Finally - you/he will see if there are further gains by tuning on a Dyno.

Dyno before basic service work.
Dyno after basic service work.
Custom tune if worth it.
This way you'll learn what works and what doesn't.

Personally, I wouldn't pay much for a canned tune. The real, and funny, gains come from a custom tune. Example: I removed my PC3 to tune directly into the ECU (flashing). Just for entertainment purposes we did a Dyno run with the unaltered DP ECU. The AF ratio was perfect all along the rev range. Even my highly tuned 839cc engine got enough fuel from an ECU sold for a much 'softer' engine, BUT that is not what extract the top 8-10-12-.... bhp. If this is relevant in your case is not known until the basic work and a Dyno run is done.


Again: "adequate"? 

[thump]

Hmmm, I guess I wasn't clear.

Eric talked me out of a dyno. He suggested the 2 plans I wrote above, given the limitation of my ECU and trouble in his experience with piggybacking a PC3 onto it.

Adequate with respect to AFR. Also meaning not opening a can of worms for performance gains I haven't been missing. Again, his suggestion. I'm not against fun, but I don't want to break an expensive black box after having been advised against it.

I'm not doubting that you're correct about untapped performance, so I'm looking for options. From what I've read, a 5AM has tunable maps and may (MAY) work on my bike, if true then yes to a custom tune at the dyno. I just need to find a reasonably priced used 5AM to see if it runs this machine.

If not, then I'll go with Eric's advice, which is the DP flashed ECU + airbox mod, though your emoji seems to be downvoting that, sorry for upsetting the l'il guy. 

From Brad's site, the stock AFR was out of whack even with slip-ons as the only mod, and only slightly improved with idle trim:

https://www.bikeboy.org/800monster.html

I want to address AFR primarily, performance gains will follow.

[DarkMonster620]

Eric should have a SR2 800 engine and ECU ...

Was a project of mine ... Due to an accident, never saw life ... 

[thump]

Eric should have a SR2 800 engine and ECU ...

Was a project of mine ... Due to an accident, never saw life ... 

Sorry about the accident, but thanks for the tip. The specs say that would be the 5AM. I gotta do a bit more reading to see if anyone has used one on an M800 with success. It may be the cleanest solution for my bike to get a custom tune.

btw I saw a post of yours from 2016 about a repair manual / electrical schematic (dead link though):

I'll upload a link of the repair manual . .  for some reason I think this is happening because of a "faulty-loose connection"

edit:

user's manual with electrical at end
file:///C:/Users/Carlos%20Brewer/Downloads/M620_800_1000_2004_it_en_fr_de.pdf

My hardcopy owners manual references a schematic, and even has a legend, but no schematic. Ditto for the downloaded version. Would you still have this and willling to upload again? 

[DarkMonster620]

Sorry about the accident, but thanks for the tip. The specs say that would be the 5AM. I gotta do a bit more reading to see if anyone has used one on an M800 with success. It may be the cleanest solution for my bike to get a custom tune.

btw I saw a post of yours from 2016 about a repair manual / electrical schematic (dead link though):

My hardcopy owners manual references a schematic, and even has a legend, but no schematic. Ditto for the downloaded version. Would you still have this and willling to upload again? 

Let me dig, the pc/hdd where that was ... well, was ... BUT, I might have it somewhere ...

The ECU Eric has is a 5AM from a SR2 800 ...

[thump]

Oh that would be super, if you are able. And if its gone to computer heaven, I appreciate the effort either way.

In the interest of proper search indexing, I'll start a new thread re: custom tuning experiences for the M800, including the 5AM replacement.

Many thanks to everyone who offered advice and/or the kick in the pants I needed to go this route. It will be an exciting project for the winter. Cheers.

[booger]

Both level 3 Ducati master techs I've known have disdain for piggyback ECU rigs. Their general opinion is the DP map is solid and all you need for a street bike. For those who want the extra performance, they dyno & tune but unless it's a superbike with track fairings & slicks on it they will typically try and talk you out of doing that. Dynos blow engines that aren't 100%, so unless they just did a valve check/clearance plus fresh belts & oil they are loath to dyno. The track bike engines are more closely monitored and continually refreshed, street bike engines are just maintained.

I was going to go with PCIII once upon a time but then somebody told me they were hot garbage and to just do a DP ECU/airbox and declare victory.

[Howie]

Unless the engine is already in trouble and on the way out anyway bad dyno operators blow engines.  Yes, it is good to avoid piggy backs if you can.  I was happy with the DP map on the 1000, nice improvement in HP, torque and rideability.  The fuel curve could have been leaner and the timing advance curve been better though.

[thump]

I appreciate the additional information. For now I think I will go that route - pull the baffle, open the airbox, flash the ECU to the DP map. The more I've read the less I like the idea of a piggyback.

As far as flashing goes, I've been directed to David at Rexxer or Bobby at HSBK Racing (was this formerly Houston superbikes?their website puts them in Pennsylvania so I am not sure).

There is a local shop that tells me they can dyno and build a custom map and then flash it to my ECU - it won't be further adjustable without a re-flash, but this is the most customized option I've got, for the most dollars. I may save this until it's time again for a valve adjustment, belt change, compression check etc, make sure everything is tip top before putting the bike and my wallet through a stress test. Another year or two to enjoy the improvements from the canned racing map.

Does anyone have advice or concerns about where to get the DP map?

[Howie]

Toronto?  Maybe Doug Logfren  if he is still in Mn and you can locate him.

[DarkMonster620]

Toronto?  Maybe Doug Logfren  if he is still in Mn and you can locate him.

He is still in MN ...