Ducati Monster Forum

I had a full aluminium bolt kit on my bike, and it was shit. I broke so many bolts just nipping them up, and stripped out so many heads. I finally got an SS bolt kit and it is so good to be able to tighten them up without worrying about breaking them. They look hot too.

Highly recommended
 [thumbsup]

I have the aluminuim Pro Bolt Kit on my bike and have no problems, I also have a torque wrench [thumbsup]

Which brand kit did you get?
I wish there was a FULL kit that replaced every visible bolt on your bike. Rotors and all. I helped a friend change his rotors out onto a new wheel and we stripped all 12 bolts on the front wheel. it was a LONG day.

While I can see problems with one or two bolts on the entire bike, this...
...sounds like user error.  Lay off the steroids prior to tightening bolts and nuts.  ;D

It was torqued by ducati. Tell them to stop juicing! i was trying to get them off! [bang]

No hex key would work. So i drilled it out and tapped a flathead into it. I broke the bit (steel bit) it also stripped my T-30. made it look like a helical gear. finnally we cut a massive slit on it, and  hammered it with a screw driver. It started digging into the head (yes i tried all sorts of angles!) so i suggested fire (thats what i use to break of old rusty water pipes) and he had one of those mini butane torches, so we heated it up for a good minute and BAM, they broke loose.

Sorry but what are "SS bolts" and how are they different/better than OEM bolts.?

Stainless Steel I believe.  Stronger than the stock ones so they are less likely to break or strip.

Swanny

Stock botls are alluminum or brass, or something very soft. Stainless Steel is very tough and is alot more prone to stripping. If your going to work on your bike, you should defintely buy this kit and replace bolts as you get to them as time will eventually soften them up, and you will more than likely strip them in the years to come. Plus they stay shinny and are corrosion resistant.

Fixed

Oh, and +1.

Can you suggest good suppliers?
Are they sold in kits to suit specific bikes and/or Motors?

Moto Wheels sells kits.

I had an aftermarket ali kit, it was on the bike when I got it. I got the SS kit from Monsterparts.

Holy crap!!

I was thinking of removing my front rotors to clean the wheel next time I do a tire change, but now maybe not.  :-\    Sooner or later though, I have to remove the rotors to replace them.

 :)

Misc Bolt Set:
http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/M67BOLTKIT/Accessories/M67BOLTKIT.html

2V Motor Set:
http://www.monsterparts.com/pc/2VBOLTS/Accessories/2VBOLTS.html

Well for the record if anyone searches for this thread,

Front Rotor bolts are

M8 bolts, 20mm in length, and 1.25pitch.

m8x1.25x20

Titanium bolts costs $115, but i found some one ebay for $60 for 12 of them.
Stainless steel is cheaper, but i dont think you save much weight from SS and titanium.

Titanium is stronger by weight when matched against SS. but since a Ti bolt of the same size as SS weighs less, its also not as strong I assume. But does it need to be that strong? probably not. What about the weight savings? probably marginal at best and not noticeable since its not a race spec bike and the screws are  very close to the center of the wheel. If your bike is still fresh, id suggest you take them off NOW and repalce them lol

I'll be putting together Ti "kits" in my ebay store, although I'm not going to be able to keep a lot of it in stock.  It's too much $$$ outlay to keep 2-3K worth of Ti in stock, but it's only 2 days from me.

I'll probably break it up into small "kits"  Clutch, subframe (SBK), Forks, Etc....

FYI from the engineering standpoint:

Titanium bolts on your bike: from an assembly perspective, just bling. You do not gain anything from them. The ounces you save would be quicker and cheaper if you just went on a diet.


Stainless steel bolts: Not really all that much stronger than good grade 8 bolts. But a whole lot more expensive. Tits on a bull as well.


So the only real benefit from either is being able to say "I have titanium/stainless bolts on my bike".



I *really* hope that doesn't come up in conversation that often.

well I can tell you right now they are stronger than aluminium.

In that case, id just go stainless steel for its corrosion resistance. (bike is riden in salted roads in the winter season)

Will either of the monsterparts sets work for  2005 S2R 800? I live in Hawaii and the corrosion even on plated parts is crazy.
 I would love to have SS bolt set for entire bike.

Get your SS bolts from here http://www.desmoparts.com/

Chris sells them at a great price, is super easy to deal with and they ship FAST!  [thumbsup]

You must consider the application before throwing aluminum hardware at something. It should never be used for a structural point since both its shear and tensile strengths are far below what is needed. Al would be good for the windscreen, fairing, fenders, etc. where the torque required to clamp the part is very low and there is little/no bending and shear load. It sounds like you used them somewhere they should not have been or are overtightening them way beyond what even the steel should have been. That said, the stainless kits are nice from aesthetic point of view and also when considering repeated disassembly/re-assembly (aluminum won't last nearly as long).




If you ever run into this problem again, drill the head off of the bolt. After the part is out of the way, the rest of the bolt is exposed and you have more options to remove the rest (Vice Grips, slot for screwdriver, etc) and many times will turn with just your fingers.




The stock bolts are plain steel and are not case hardened very deep if at all. Also, bolts (any material) don't soften over time. The only thing that will do that is to anneal them.






Ti weighs roughly 40% less than most steels so the total weight savings for a whole bike is about the same as if you had a healthy dump before a ride. The suggestion to change the bolts now (while "new") is a valid point. Or, simply removing them and re-assembling with antiseize and correct torque is an option (what I do).




See my first comment on proper application.

lmao... heading to the loo.   [laugh]

Some people want them, others don't.  For those that are weight loss fanatics like me, everything adds up.  8 ounces here, and 16 ounces there ends up being a few pounds.  If you appy that to the entire bike, you end up with something much lighter weight.  Nice thing about Ti bolts is you can do it a small bit at a time, here or there.  Why would I use a stainless bolt when I can buy the same fastener for just a smidge more in Ti?  Remember, I'm crazy...I want to have a set of Mag triples made for my monster to drop weight.

Rotating weight is where it's best spent though, or at the front or rear ends unsprung.

It all adds up (or doesn't)

I would love to replace the bolts that hold the Brake Calipers in place, The heads on those are so soft, the rear brake caliper already has a pretty sad looking bolt, I've had a look at quite a few sites and everybody sells the bolts that hold the caliper in together, but not the bolts that attach the caliper to the bike.

Can someone advise if anyone sells those, or correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

Pro Bolt

Where can you get Ti screws for a smudge more? I looked everywhere. the cost of Ti 6n-al is usually 5x the price of SS. i can get SS m8x1.25x20mm for less than .85 cent a bolt, less than .30cent if i buy a pack of 100. For Ti Bolts, they are anywhere from $5.00 a bolt for generic titanium to $20 for the higher quality stuff.

Any kit of 6N-al Ti bolts for the front rotors will run you upwards of $50. TPO, Motowheels, yoyodyne, all of then are about $120. This is for 12 bolts. If you find an outside source, it can cost as little as $60 for 12 screws.


SP3, I did drill the head out on 1 of them. It didnt budge. i ended up cutting slots into the head and using it as point of leverage. The bike is an outdoors year round bike, so it gets ridden in nasty conditions all year round.Either way, if you work on your bike, or ride in harsh conditions, SS bolts are a cheap way to keep your bike's maintence down (aka not having to spend 3 hours to remove screws)

Good link chill, very good kit that fits DS1000s!

probably had loctite used on it. the heat softens it...

I just get my stainless bolts from the local stainless bolt shop..  I remove the bolts I want, measure em, write down the sizes I need and every month or so visit and get whats on the list. 

I then put a bit of a radius on the head of capscrews and polish em...  makes a big difference...

some sort of anti seize should be used when using SS in ally,  They are mortal enemies and will eventually lock together and youll strip the a,lly thread when you try n get em out.

So you did NOT remove the head of the bolt when you drilled it? That is what I meant if there was any confusion.

There are *infinitely* more useful things to address before the weight of your bolts.

Im only 142. If i loose 10 lbs, theres not much of me left. Id be loosing muscle mass...but look on the bright side, i could eat alot of  [bacon]! and buttery [popcorn], all the  [wine] and steaks, and have a  [beer] or when im alone, i can just  [drink], only to drink  [coffee] when i have a hangover.

wow theres al ot of food related icons.

who can turn that into the exact words i was thinking?

There sure are a lot of things you can address before you go through the bolts.

IMHO however, I'm not going to go to the trouble of making a carbon muffler bracket to hang the shotgun termi's and then put back on the stock bolts.  Or change out the headlight brackets for carbon ones and re-use the stock hardware.  Same for the clutch, clutch cover, rotor bolts, etc.

Would you go to the expense of putting CMC rotors on your bike and then use steel bolts on them?

It's all about the whole package, not just replacing a few pieces of hardware with Ti.  [wine]

maybe a good idea is if we write the size of bolts down as we change them out, post and compile them here so that we dont have to pull them out and measure before we order.... ??

Or you could say I have rusty OEM bolts on my bike

Yes, that's exactly it. These things rot away at the drop of a hat.

a good way to prevent rusty bolts is to smuther bacon grease on the bolt heads.

Dogs chase my bike more than enough as is, thank you.

[bacon] [bacon] [bacon]

LOL, I couldn't figure out WTF that was....something clicked...it's BAAACON!

 [bacon] [bacon] [bacon] [laugh] [laugh]

you actually thought bacon grease was a techicaly term for some rust proof grease?  [laugh]

It must be-there is not rust on me innards.  ;D

One last thing for any one reading this thread. There is a reason why Ducati/wshops spec certain tourque settings for bolts.
 Both engine covers on these engines are cast items, the threads can easily be stripped, its a down side of the metalurgy (ie the way its built) of the cast metal.
 So stronger bolts means being extra carefull not to strip the thread in the case. When your renching on these new SS/Ti bolts remember that the case is now the weak part.... so use a tourque wrench.
 There is some logic to simple OEM bolts, replacing a weak bolt is much cheaper/easier than repairs on a stripped cover. - Chris

Why would it be better to replace the bolts when the bike is newer?  Is there a noticeable difference in aesthetics between SS & TI?

The tourque on any fastener, is calculated to achieve a design pre-load (or clamping) force, taking into account any stretching of the fastener. In general, the torque figures given by Ducati can be used on SS & Ti fasteners.

The 'weaker' metal of a threaded joint will fail first, in most cases, this will be the threaded hole in the aluminium component.

I recommend the use of an anti sieze compound when using SS, Ti or Al fasteners.

Pro Bolt's SS fasteners are polished, the finish is superior to Ti

Its better to replace them now than later because of corrosion. The metal will corrode and the anti sieze (if there was any placed in by the factory) begins to dry out. At which point, it may end up siezing, or the head of the fastener has corroded, so the surface of the screw is soft and will give way when you apply pressure. Take this for instance, the person bike who i helped removed the 12 rotor screws. The bike only has about 12,000 miles on it. Its an 07 695 so its not even 2 years old yet. But its an everyday commuter bike + weekend warrior + its parked outside. the salt left over from the winter wore out the fasteners head. When i used a allen key on it, the head stripped like butter. When i drilled it out and dug a torx into the body of it, the torx ended up twisting like butter. so i had a broken screw, and a broken tool bit. lol.

OEM Ducati bolts are made from cheese  ;D

What kind?

Monsterella  ;D

 [laugh] [clap]

  [laugh] You set him up real nice for that one.

This is false, stainless bolts are at MOST on par with a grade 2 bolt.  Stainless hardware is hard and brittle, and will break before it stretches much.

Potato po-tah-toe.

Of the SAE Grades, Grade 8 is the strongest, with a tensile strength of 150,000 psi.

ARP supplies stainless bolts with tensile strengths in the neighbor-hood of 170,000 psi, and climb their way up from there.

Both 302 and 316 stainless have a tensile strength of 100,000 psi and yield strength of 65,000 psi, so if you want to call out cheap stainless sure, but in terms of the quality stuff, it *is* better fastener-which would be why those of us who work in aerospace will substitute it when titanium isn't available.


It's just excessive on a bike.

There was a thread on TOB, raising concerns that SS fasteners are subject to a form of embrittlement when exposed to any form of sodium chloride.

+1

Their relative strengths, for one. 


IMO, SS and Al are great for minimal stress, cosmetic uses.  Brake Rotors, not so much.  On a race bike where ounces count (and the bolts get changed every time the rotors do) sure.  A street bike.  No way.


And fwiw, Ducati uses locktite to put them on.  A heat gun and a gentle tap or two with the butt of your ratchet and they'll come right off.

I would only worry about it if I were building a nuclear plant  that needs to last for a few hundred years.

SS is great for minimal stress? Steel itself is a very high tensile meta. its not THE best, but i certianly would not put it in the same basket as aluminum. There are also many types of stainless steel used for varying applications from surgical tools to building sky scrapers. The stock bolts on the Ducati Rotors are also steel. I would not run aluminum on rotors, i dont see why running SS would be bad.

And as far as the rotors going, generally speaking a heat gun and a tap will work, but if its an outdoors bike with the elements attacking it 24/7. SS is the best metal to use for a reasonable price IMHO. I just looked at my rear rotors and theres also a salt film that has built up around the screw, screw head, and the rotor. All the bolts on my engine are the same.

Oh crap, I just wasted more money on the bike with more Ti fasteners :D

heel guard mounts (for my homemade heel guards
rad guard mounts (for my homemade rad guards)
Rear rotor mount bolts (for the lightweight rotor that is coming)
Front rotor bolts (just because I felt like it)
Front caliper mounting bolts (because the stock ones are huge)
Rear caliper mounting bolt (because I'm back there)
Rear caliper half joining bolt (because I like to waste money...otherwise I'd spend it on a big mac and get fat)
Swingarm brake line mounting thingy bolts (because the stock ones are twice as long as they should be, and again, why not?)

A whopping $100 on all of the above.   About 1/2 lb of rotating weight on the front, 1 1/2 lb of unsprung weight.

With the 520 chain thats laying around, and the quick change rear, along with the rear rotor, I might save ~3lbs of rotating weight on the rear end of the bike.

One day I'll buy some BST's  [thumbsup] [drink]

OOOOOOOOR a slipper.....

I took 6 lbs of rotating mass off the crank... [evil]

I swear one day I will buy your Ti bolt kit

6 lbs off the crank?

What clutch did you have before?

What bike is it?

I have a S4Rs......my bad it was 5lbs....and I felt the stocker after it came out and the one that went in....HUGE difference

That would be the countershaft not the crankshaft.

Hi All.

Capo Re-Sodium Chloride.
Chlorine and 304/306 don't go well, and will degrade rapidly at temps above 50DegC.

My 2 cents worth.

Cheers all

Madalf

There's a big difference between chlorine and chloride.  Which do you mean?

Opps, should of been Chlorides.

sorry to dig up a kind of old thread...

I've been replacing my hardware with the SS kits from monsterparts.. Is there a guideline for which bolts should get ant seize? 
Handlebar clamp is the one I'm mostly wondering about right now.
Engine covers?


Thanks
Andy

Apply antisieze to all bolts except those that need loctite (such as the rotor bolts).
Antisieze does not dry out over time and allow the fatenerto sieze as stated by He Man.

This is what I do.  But.............. I would say that the only time that you need anti seize is when you are putting SS hardware into a dissimilar metal. (AKA Aluminum) 

The use of antisieze on dissimilar metals, it primarily to prevent galvanic corrosion.
Where the metals are the same especially with stainless steel, the antisieze prevents galling.