Holy motherfunking shite, you cannot make this stuff up.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/31/greyhound-transcanada.html
Was he on the bus for more than 30 minutes? The 30 minute mark on a grey hound bus is when I start feeling a little stabby.
sac
"road head"
The guy has his back to them and he is out numbered 100 to 1 and they run away while he finishes off the guy in the next seat. F*cking pussies. Having been on the receiving end of several attacks while my fellow New Yorkers sat there and stared, I have no sympathy for these a$$holes who can't eat or sleep since the incident.
Makes you think about what would have happened if we could CCW in Canada.
I can't stand it when people sitting next to me get chatty either.
Quote from: silentbob on July 31, 2008, 10:07:12 AM
The guy has his back to them and he is out numbered 100 to 1 and they run away while he finishes off the guy in the next seat.
It was only 37 to 1. How could they stand a chance?!!!
that is crazy.
I'll think twice before choosing my bus seat next time. This shit never happens on the Fung Wa!
Quote from: Bick on July 31, 2008, 10:18:02 AM
I can't stand it when people sitting next to me get chatty either.
It was only 37 to 1. How could they stand a chance?!!!
The dude was dead by then. Why injure or risk injury by then. If the dude was pummeling the guy with no deadly weapon, Have at the A-hole but if the guy has been stabbed 50x by the time they heard the scream, Sorry man. No saving the guy. Atleast they contained him.
Truly sad and gruesome.
i feel like puking.
that's a horrible event...
I HATE PEOPLE
Quote from: OwnyTony on July 31, 2008, 10:37:23 AM
The dude was dead by then. Why injure or risk injury by then. If the dude was pummeling the guy with no deadly weapon, Have at the A-hole but if the guy has been stabbed 50x by the time they heard the scream, Sorry man. No saving the guy. Atleast they contained him.
Truly sad and gruesome.
Dead people don't scream. When he heard the scream and turned around he had an opportunity to stop him. Instead he ran for the door.
Quote from: silentbob on July 31, 2008, 10:41:05 AM
Dead people don't scream. When he heard the scream and turned around he had an opportunity to stop him. Instead he ran for the door.
Thats most likely the initial stab. By then, the guy was going to die one way or another.
Some guy plays the hero; looses a couple fingers and gets slashed pretty good; manages to get the guy to stop stabbing the initial victim; subdues (with the help of the other passengers) the CRAZY; help arrives only to find the victim dead from major blood loss. You come to realize in hindsight that by then, even if someone were to attend the victim's wounds, the guy would have still bleed to death by the time paramedics arrived.
So you loose a couple fingers and get cut in other places for what? A dead guy? Sometimes you have to cut your losses. If it was a fist fight, SURE JUMP IN but in this case, And how one of the passengers described the attack, the poor guy was already stabbed multiple times in vital areas by the time the sleepy bus came to realize what was going down.
it was Loki and Bartleby
Quote from: OwnyTony on July 31, 2008, 11:17:16 AM
Thats most likely the initial stab. By then, the guy was going to die one way or another.
Some guy plays the hero; looses a couple fingers and gets slashed pretty good; manages to get the guy to stop stabbing the initial victim; subdues (with the help of the other passengers) the CRAZY; help arrives only to find the victim dead from major blood loss. You come to realize in hindsight that by then, even if someone were to attend the victim's wounds, the guy would have still bleed to death by the time paramedics arrived.
So you loose a couple fingers and get cut in other places for what? A dead guy? Sometimes you have to cut your losses. If it was a fist fight, SURE JUMP IN but in this case, And how one of the passengers described the attack, the poor guy was already stabbed multiple times in vital areas by the time the sleepy bus came to realize what was going down.
How would you have known he was "already a dead guy"? In general, it's hard to quickly kill a person by stabbing. Most points on your body would not be immediately fatal.
Guarantee the kid screamed on the first stab - when the guy turned around... he couldn't have hit him more than 3 times or so by then.
That is nuts.
Guy was probably dead by the time anyone could do anything, doesn't mean you still shouldn't try to do something within reason.
just one guy with a C&C....could have fixed it.
Quote from: silentbob on July 31, 2008, 10:07:12 AM
The guy has his back to them and he is out numbered 100 to 1 and they run away while he finishes off the guy in the next seat. F*cking pussies. Having been on the receiving end of several attacks while my fellow New Yorkers sat there and stared, I have no sympathy for these a$$holes who can't eat or sleep since the incident.
The bus left from Edmonton where I live (and have been attacked while people watch and no one calls 911 even). Not surprised at all. :-\
DOA or not, you simply can't stand idly by when someone is getting killed. I mean, they could have at least prevented him from desecrating the poor guys corpse, jebus.
CCW is pretty much impossible in Canada unless you are a security agent (and I don't mean a typical security guard, 95% of them don't carry unless they work at a bank). I wouldn't really want a CCW license, but when shit like this happens, it makes you think what could have been.
Quote from: OwnyTony on July 31, 2008, 11:17:16 AM
Thats most likely the initial stab. By then, the guy was going to die one way or another.
Some guy plays the hero; looses a couple fingers and gets slashed pretty good; manages to get the guy to stop stabbing the initial victim; subdues (with the help of the other passengers) the CRAZY; help arrives only to find the victim dead from major blood loss. You come to realize in hindsight that by then, even if someone were to attend the victim's wounds, the guy would have still bleed to death by the time paramedics arrived.
So you loose a couple fingers and get cut in other places for what? A dead guy? Sometimes you have to cut your losses. If it was a fist fight, SURE JUMP IN but in this case, And how one of the passengers described the attack, the poor guy was already stabbed multiple times in vital areas by the time the sleepy bus came to realize what was going down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc Carry a gun. End of problem.
Or make sure that Chuck Norris is on the bus.
There's no way I would have been able to subdue a 40 year old man with a hunting knife. I think most people would be better off running away. However, 2-3 strong men should have been able to take him down. It's sick that everyone just left him on the bus to do what he wanted with that poor guy's body.
What happened was horrible. I dont want to get into it. Yes, from what i stated, I am making judgement calls. From the description of the wittness, he states that the poor kid was stabbed in the arm, legs, chest and gut. Basically, anywhere the knife was thrust at was hit.
What the passengers did do WITH IN REASON (someone mentioned, with in reason) was quarantine the guy in the bus and disable the bus so that it could not be driven away.
It was not a fair fight. A guy has a knife and you have your arms and legs in tight quarters. If a guy was carrying a gun or if I was carrying a gun, I WOULD HAVE INTERVENED as I am the one at an advantage.
Its risk and reward. Sure, you shouldn't easily be able to value or judge a human life and rather or not you should intervene. But you have to value your own life as well.
Usually, People do not instantly die but given where the poor kid was stabbed, I would say his chances were pretty slim of coming out alive. At the moment you intervene, the kid may be alive but I would not be surprised if the kid died by the time the attacker was subdued (if someone intervened). You can criticize me on my judgment. Thats ok but come on. This situation is just make the beast with two backsed and there really is not much one could have done.
Again, take the knife out of the equation or put a gun in a passengers hand into the equation and the solution is very different.
Quote from: Dangerous Person on July 31, 2008, 12:36:19 PM
There's no way I would have been able to subdue a 40 year old man with a hunting knife. I think most people would be better off running away. However, 2-3 strong men should have been able to take him down. It's sick that everyone just left him on the bus to do what he wanted with that poor guy's body.
And this ladies and gentlemen is exactly all 37 people left that bus. Everyone and a perfectly sound reason as to why they can not help, and perfectly sound reasons why other people should. This let's everyone keep their own little world veiw in tact. "I am just wonderful but those other people who should have helped but didn't were wrong for running away the same way I did." Neenja, those three large guys, well, one had a bad back, one was half drunk, and one was assualted with a knife earlier in the year and is still having nightmares from it. Everyone has an excuse.
I'll own up to it: I would have been make the beast with two backsing scared. If I didn't know the guy being stabbed, I would have pushed over my grandmother to get off of that bus. Okay, not
my grandmother, but definitely yours.
BP is right a C&C would have stopped this, but if I had a C&C and wasn't in emminent danger myself, I may not have pulled the trigger.
sac
/did I mention I went shooting?
/I likey!
What. The. make the beast with two backs.
It's time to get back to building my cabin and writing that manifesto..... :-\
It's stories like this that make me think being a hermit has merit. What happened to the dude that he could mutilate someone else like that and apparently not feel anything. Scary and ick.
I don't pass judgement on the 37 passengers as I can't promise I wouldn't have been leading the pack if I was on the bus. I hope that I would do something, but I've never put that to the test so it's anyone's guess. I would have called for help. However by the time it arrived it would be too late.
Quote from: SacDuc on July 31, 2008, 01:23:52 PM
/did I mention I went shooting?
/I likey!
I'll invite you to our next shootout in the desert if you can make it down to San Diego.
I would like to think that I would have done something in that situation but I guess you never know. Unless you are in a situation like that.
Either way that Mr. Stabby was all kinds of crazy.
Bartleby: Your hard-on for smiting has prevented us from negotiating what ought to be the relatively simple matter of catching or staying on a bus.
:-[ :-[ :-[
..and I was just telling my wife that I wasn't going to Aikido tonight. We're doing weapon take-aways.
I was just watching First Blood II last night. Rambo was talking about how that BIG AZZ, razor-sharp knife was his lucky charm. If that crazed bus killer had one similar, it would be pretty hard to take it away from him in those narrow Greyhound bus aisles without one or more people getting killed. Those guys did the right thing by disabling the bus and holding him in.
I bused it from AZ to MI and back several times when I was a teen. Any station southwest of Midland, MI (which means EVERY friggen station) is a sh*thole!!
Quote from: spolic on July 31, 2008, 12:07:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzcOCyHDqc Carry a gun. End of problem.
funny story about that scene. it was originally supposed to be a long, drawn out battle between indy and the sword guy.
ford had caught a bug and wasn't feeling to hot, so suggested to spielberg "why don't i just shoot him?"
ah, the making of a classic movie scene. ;D
Quote from: silentbob on July 31, 2008, 01:48:13 PM
I'll invite you to our next shootout in the desert if you can make it down to San Diego.
Funny, I have freinds moving from Turkey to Death Valley soon. I'll be down that way now and then. Just beginning with hand guns right now. No rifles or shot guns yet. Don't even have my own gun as I'm not get comfortable enough around them to have one in the house. But unloading a dew rounds in the desert sounds fun.
sac
Quote from: derby on July 31, 2008, 02:48:00 PM
funny story about that scene. it was originally supposed to be a long, drawn out battle between indy and the sword guy.
ford had caught a bug and wasn't feeling to hot, so suggested to spielberg "why don't i just shoot him?"
ah, the making of a classic movie scene. ;D
TOTAL
DERBY from TOB!
;)
Quote from: IZ on July 31, 2008, 02:38:42 PM
:-[ :-[ :-[
..and I was just telling my wife that I wasn't going to Aikido tonight. We're doing weapon take-aways.
amen. we've been doing those in hanagah... :-\
Quote from: Ash on July 31, 2008, 03:35:12 PM
hanagah...
Does that incorporate Krav Maga techniques or is that where KM comes from? I just searched it and I saw
Jewish and
self-defense.
it incorporates four israeli fighting systems, one of which is KM. it's more violent and the philosophy is a little different ;)
it's all about immediately converting from victim status to aggressor, and overwhelming your attacker by short circuiting all his pain pathways
The plot thickens... My GF tells me she heard two of the men on the bus were armed. And still did nothing.
Have you thought this one through?
Quote from: NeufUnSix on July 31, 2008, 12:06:45 PM
CCW is pretty much impossible in Canada unless you are a security agent. I wouldn't really want a CCW license, but when shit like this happens, it makes you think what could have been.
Yeah. The attacker could have been the one carrying and got a half dozen shots off at different people on the bus! You are from Montreal. Dawson College ring any bells?
Quote from: PizzaMonster on July 31, 2008, 05:26:43 PM
Have you thought this one through?
Yeah. The attacker could have been the one carrying and got a half dozen shots off at different people on the bus! You are from Montreal. Dawson College ring any bells?
This way of thinking is the main problem hampering people being able to defend themselves. If the criminal wanted to bring a gun he would have. The only thing gun laws do is prevent law abiding citizens from carrying guns.
truly a horrible tale.
Easy to sit here and pass judgement on the rest of the passengers.Its my bet that most of you would shite yourselves and want off that bus pronto.
Been to war, seen the results ........not pretty.
Don't be too hasty young friends with your bravado.
Remember, heroes are usually dead people.
"RCMP crisis negotiators communicated with the suspect for several hours while he was on the bus. Around 1:30 a.m., he attempted to jump from a bus window and was subdued and arrested, RCMP said."
What did they need to negotiate? [roll]
Quote from: hbliam on July 31, 2008, 11:05:39 PM
"RCMP crisis negotiators communicated with the suspect for several hours while he was on the bus. Around 1:30 a.m., he attempted to jump from a bus window and was subdued and arrested, RCMP said."
What did they need to negotiate? [roll]
He was holding the head hostage, maybe the head was still alive and they thought it was worth saving.
They should have just shot him.
Quote from: SKOM on August 01, 2008, 08:05:18 AM
They should have just shot him.
I understand the sentiment, but I kind of like this whole "due process" thing we have here in the good ol' U S of A. So you win today's INTERNET TOUGH GUY AWARD:
(http://www.contraditorium.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/internet-tough-guy-magazine-tn.jpg)
Congratulations!
Quote from: SacDuc on August 01, 2008, 08:31:53 AM
I understand the sentiment, but I kind of like this whole "due process" thing we have here in the good ol' U S of A. So you win today's INTERNET TOUGH GUY AWARD:
Congratulations!
Ouch.
I never thought I would get that one. :-\
(Where was your due process when they shot Sean Bell?)
I do realize that they couldn't have shot him. It's just frustrating.
Quote from: SKOM on August 01, 2008, 08:47:22 AM
Ouch.
I never thought I would get that one. :-\
(Where was your due process when they shot Sean Bell?)
I do realize that they couldn't have shot him. It's just frustrating.
Just make the beast with two backsin' with ya'. Its what I do. :-*
And the Sean Bell incident is EXACTLY why cops should not just go around shooting people (50 times) if there are other alternatives. Even with pyschopaths. The law (ideally) should be applied equally to everyone. Even the guy holding the other guy's head. Keeps you safe from the cops if ever they get you confused with someone else who committed a crime.
sac
Quote from: SacDuc on August 01, 2008, 08:54:09 AM
Just make the beast with two backsin' with ya'. Its what I do. :-*
And the Sean Bell incident is EXACTLY why cops should not just go around shooting people (50 times) if there are other alternatives. Even with pyschopaths. The law (ideally) should be applied equally to everyone. Even the guy holding the other guy's head. Keeps you safe from the cops if ever they get you confused with someone else who committed a crime.
sac
[thumbsup]
I'ma take a different approach:
Harm avoidance is more important in self-defense than going after the attacker. The victim was gone by the time anyone knew what was happening. Getting people to safety is priority number one. Keeping them safe would be where more direct measures would be necessary.
You can argue that putting a bullet in the head of the attacker would have stopped the guy cold but you'd be missing the point of the story regarding the psychological damage that the other victims on the bus incurred. The image of a blood covered man weilding a knife, the sounds of screaming and the feeling of fleeing terror would not have been assuaged by the loud report of an unchambered round and the sight of the results. The potential for collateral damage in the confines of a bus aisleway is very high as well, especially when folks are in panic mode and adrenaline/primal instinct takes over. One could just as easily have been mistaken as attacker rather than 'good Samaritan'.
It is difficult to imagine what any of us would do until actually put into an extremely hostile situation. People train for this stuff and still don't know until they're in it deep. Hopefully none of us will ever have to find out.
Damn right I remember Dawson. I LIVED TWO BLOCKS AWAY FROM THE COLLEGE. I was walking to class at McGill when the SOB started shooting.
I still have no problems with guns, unlike most city folk. I unfortunately have to deal with the stigma of being a gun owner and enthusiast when I'm surrounded by knee-jerk liberals who think that responsible gun ownership is the same as owning illegal street weapons.