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Kitchen Sink => No Moto Content => Topic started by: He Man on August 17, 2008, 07:25:08 PM

Title: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: He Man on August 17, 2008, 07:25:08 PM
In a sport where almost every car is identical, how could you find ways to cheat?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=ap-nascar-gibbscheating&prov=ap&type=lgns


By sandbagging a dyno.  [roll] so everyone can think you are faster.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Kopfjager on August 17, 2008, 07:30:12 PM
If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. If you get caught, youre not trying hard enough.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: NAKID on August 17, 2008, 09:39:13 PM
Here's where I stand, I kind of understand their frustration. They bust their ass to make a good engine. They win some races because they did their job well, then NASCRAP comes in and tells the "You're too good, it's not fair to everyone else, so you have to cut HP".

Piss Off...
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: red baron on August 17, 2008, 09:41:36 PM
Gotta give them credit for being crafty.

Wouldn't it have been easier to modify the linkage?
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: teddy037.2 on August 17, 2008, 09:52:08 PM
+1, I'm w/chris. if you can make power w/in the rules, you just have a better builder.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Kopfjager on August 17, 2008, 09:59:02 PM
Quote from: NAKID on August 17, 2008, 09:39:13 PM
Here's where I stand, I kind of understand their frustration. They bust their ass to make a good engine. They win some races because they did their job well, then NASCRAP comes in and tells the "You're too good, it's not fair to everyone else, so you have to cut HP".

Piss Off...

F1 did the same thing to Honda back in the 60's. That is one of the reasons they left, (I believe). This type of thing goes on in all Motorsports, not just NASCAR.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: CairnsDuc on August 18, 2008, 02:06:17 AM
Quote from: red baron on August 17, 2008, 09:41:36 PM
Gotta give them credit for being crafty.

Wouldn't it have been easier to modify the linkage?

I assume the Car was taken to the Dyno straight after the race (or to a location that the team has no access to) Nascar would not have allowed the car to be touched or adjusted straight after the race, so while straight after the race they would have time to quickly shove a magnet on a pedal by a team member, as opposed to lifting the bonnet and breaking out the tools to adjust a linkage.

Not to Dissimilar to Park Ferme in Moto GP, 2-3 staff are allowed to assist the rider off the bike, put the bike on stands and cover the tyres, if they touch or adjust any part of the bike, the team is disqualified.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: SP3 on August 18, 2008, 02:28:57 AM
Quote from: NAKID on August 17, 2008, 09:39:13 PM
Here's where I stand, I kind of understand their frustration. They bust their ass to make a good engine. They win some races because they did their job well, then NASCRAP comes in and tells the "You're too good, it's not fair to everyone else, so you have to cut HP".

Piss Off...

Welcome to 15 years ago (or more) in nascrap. It is ALL about the show and NONE about the competition, ie, sport.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Big Troubled Bear on August 18, 2008, 04:23:31 AM
Such is life for a race team [bang]
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Le Pirate on August 18, 2008, 04:27:13 AM
Quote from: NAKID on August 17, 2008, 09:39:13 PM
Here's where I stand, I kind of understand their frustration. They bust their ass to make a good engine. They win some races because they did their job well, then NASCRAP comes in and tells the "You're too good, it's not fair to everyone else, so you have to cut HP".

Piss Off...

+1

penalized for being good.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: DucPete on August 18, 2008, 06:00:25 AM
Quote from: Le Pirate on August 18, 2008, 04:27:13 AM
+1

penalized for being good.

Man.  Talking about Nascar here is like talking about Politics.  People sensationalize this stuff. 

Quote from the SI atricle.

"Lee White, president of Toyota Racing Development, said......I couldn't believe it was happening because it's clearly defined in the entry forms that you don't do this sort of thing."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/racing/08/17/nationwide.cheating.ap/index.html?cnn=yes

Not because NASCAR arbitrarily thought their team was too good and decided to level the field. 
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Duck-Stew on August 18, 2008, 07:24:59 AM
Look up Smokey Yunick.   [roll]
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Grampa on August 18, 2008, 07:38:07 AM
only in america.

make all the cars the same....

make them all suuuuuper safe.....

increase the size of the rulebook...daily....

increase the size of those who enforce the rules.... daily....


make it fair.



suck the fun out of it.




Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: derby on August 18, 2008, 07:53:34 AM
Quote from: Duck-Stew on August 18, 2008, 07:24:59 AM
Look up Smokey Yunick.   [roll]

that was the first thing i tought when i saw the article...
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Monsterlover on August 18, 2008, 08:07:29 AM
+1

NASCAR hated that guy [laugh]
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: derby on August 18, 2008, 11:21:14 AM
for those of you that don't know:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_Yunick#Automobile_racing

As with most successful racers, Yunick was a master of the gray area straddling the rules. Perhaps his most famous exploit was his #13 1966 Chevrolet Chevelle, driven by Curtis Turner. The car was so much faster than the competition during testing that they were certain that cheating was involved; some sort of aerodynamic enhancement was strongly suspected, but the car's profile seemed to be entirely stock, as the rules required. It was eventually discovered that what Yunick had built was an exact 7/8 scale replica of the production car. Since then, NASCAR required each race car's roof, hood, and trunk to fit templates representing the production car's exact profile. More recently, these templates represent an agreed upon "specification body" that has minimal connection to a production car's profile. The shape has been developed with extensive wind tunnel testing to "level the playing field" across several manufacturer's products.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: DucPete on August 18, 2008, 11:51:41 AM
Quote from: derby on August 18, 2008, 11:21:14 AM
It was eventually discovered that what Yunick had built was an exact 7/8 scale replica of the production car.

OMG, that is absolutely AWESOME!!
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: derby on August 18, 2008, 12:18:51 PM
Quote from: DucPete on August 18, 2008, 11:51:41 AM
OMG, that is absolutely AWESOME!!

read the rest of that link... that wasn't his only rodeo.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: DucPete on August 18, 2008, 12:40:44 PM
Quote from: derby on August 18, 2008, 12:18:51 PM
read the rest of that link... that wasn't his only rodeo.

Wow, he was definitely innovative.  His quote that "everyone else was cheatin 10 times worse" still hits home today.

I think there are few that would say it's a clean sport.  And I think that says something about human nature.  When it's on the line people will do wrong in order to advance themselves.  And people may be honoring the words of the agreement, but not the spirit of the agreement in sport.

It's sad how greed so often gets in front of doing the right thing. 
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Monsterlover on August 18, 2008, 03:38:29 PM
I read once that to circumvent fuel cell capacity restrictions he took advantage of no rules on fuel line size.  So he ran 1-1/2 fuel line from back to front gaining gallons of extra fuel ;D

Love it.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: PizzaMonster on August 18, 2008, 04:15:59 PM
“That was a really poor, foolish decision on the part of our key guys,” J.D. Gibbs said. “A couple guys chose to make a decision there that really impacts all of us.”


Only foolish 'cause his boys got caught doin' it!   ;D   

The recent philosophy of Nascar has pretty much been "we will make the cars as even as possible even if it means handicapping the best".  What else did they expect the team to do?  But as long as the show looks good from the stands............

Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: LA on August 20, 2008, 09:45:05 AM
Yea, Yunick has been a hero since I was a kid and that's a long time ago.

LA
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Bigbore4 on August 20, 2008, 11:53:26 AM
Don't know if it's true or myth, but here's my favorite Smokey story.  Apparently while there was a rule that did not allow port polishing, there was nothing said about painting them with high gloss enamel.

Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Monsterlover on August 20, 2008, 03:57:47 PM
I've heard that too.

Awesome.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Randimus Maximus on August 20, 2008, 04:37:59 PM
They got hit with some pretty stiff penalties.  JGR also has suspended the crewmembers involved.

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Joe Gibbs Racing has suspended two Nationwide Series crew chiefs for the remainder of the season in the wake of penalties handed down by NASCAR after rule violations were discovered by inspectors prior to post-race testing on the chassis dynamometer Aug. 16 at Michigan.

NASCAR announced that seven crew members -- including No. 18 crew chief Jason Ratcliff and No. 20 crew chief Dave Rogers -- have been placed on indefinite suspension.

• Both of the drivers -- Joey Logano of the No. 18 and Tony Stewart of the No. 20 -- have been penalized with the loss of 150 championship driver points and placed on probation until Dec. 31. Joe Gibbs, owner of both of the cars, has likewise been penalized 150 championship owner points for each of those entries.

• Both crew chiefs -- Ratcliff and Rogers -- have been fined $50,000 and indefinitely suspended.

• From the No. 18 team, car chief Dorian Thorsen, engine tuner Michael Johnson, and crew member Toby Bigelow have been placed on indefinite suspension.

• From the No. 20 team, car chief Richard Bray and engine tuner Dan Bajek have been indefinitely suspended.

• In addition, the entire Nos. 18 and 20 Nationwide Series teams have been placed on NASCAR probation until Dec. 31.
Title: Re: NASCAR Cheating??
Post by: Kopfjager on August 20, 2008, 05:35:26 PM
NASCAR hasen't been fooling around this season. That'll sting a bit.