Made in the USA

[CraigD426]

Yup.  It was a real sense of American pride (or something like that) when you went into the store and saw the banners of some happy people in some town in some United State with the phrase '17 jobs created' or '41 jobs saved' and you knew 'Ol Sam was up to something good and big.

Then Sam passed away and Satan took over the company.  No more banners and Sam's Club & Wal-Mart became the global whore-houses of low-priced imported bull-shit.

Now that you mention it I do remember the "jobs created" signs in the store, that was when it seemed like an "All-American" type store for the common people, now it's like a evil entity bent on global domination, anyone see the South Park episode when Wal-Mart came to town?

[Drjones]

+1. Sam was buying American at a time when many other companies were not. Does anyone remember the "look for the union label," "American cotton" and "made in the USA" tv commercials? Those were desperate attempts to keep American manufacturing afloat. Walton bought into the campaign. His company now is centered around the profit margin rather than the civic responsibility model of the founder.

I'm anticipating someone arguing that since it's a publicly traded company, it's beholden to the shareholders. When Sam owned it, he could do what he wanted. If that's the case, then maybe the government should revise the definition and responsibilities of a corporation.

Why?  Why when it is the American public that're largely responsible for the loss of manufacturing jobs via their own personal greed regarding wages and benefits and their own unwillingness or ambivalence to buy American made products.  One can bash corporation greed all they want, but one also needs to look in the mirror.  As one of my grade school teachers once said, "remember when you point your finger at someone there're three fingers pointing back at YOU." 

A basic function of free market capitalism is when everyone is buying brand X instead of brand Y, brand Y has the chioce of going out of business or emulating brand X.  Watch how fast joe blow middle class dumps a stock or fund of brand Y out of their retirement account when it isn't performing up to their expectation.  Then a few years later bashes corporate greed when they lose their job to overseas manufacturing, because they worked for a similar brand Y. When one has a 401k, IRA, etc even joe blow middle class is a shareholder.  Damn greedy shareholders!

So yeah, I guess we should just go whining to goverment to punish those meanie brand X's in order to "fix" our own stupidity.  Maybe just have government nationalize all corporations, you know, for the good of the community.

/redass

[Langanobob]

^

Drjones,

I think you are to some extent correct.  And it's one thing for a company to go offshore in order to increase profits, but another case altogether when a company is forced to go offshore in order to survive at all.  The problem is, that we are faced with a complex problem with no simple solution.  Things that worked so well for us for so many years aren't working any more now that we're faced with low cost offshore labor. 

I think the economy is in serious danger and is more of a problem than is generally recognized. Something needs to change and we need to adapt if we want to survive at anywhere near the level we are used to.  It'll require personal sacrifice and I don't see that happening unless we really hit absolute rock bottom and the absolute need for it becomes obvious.   

[ducatiz]

+1. Sam was buying American at a time when many other companies were not. Does anyone remember the "look for the union label,

Sam Walton was 100% anti union.  He would never have put that in his store.

[zarn02]

"Made in USA" doesn't do it for me. If I'm actually interested in buying a quality product, as opposed to the cheapest thing that "will do," then I'm going to look for whomever I think makes the best product in my budget. If that happens to be something American made, that's awesome. If not...

I think it's a damn shame that most of the products we purchase come from other nations, but it's to be expected. If every factory worker needs to be able to afford a nice house, and the American Dream, then of course we're going to be undercut by rising nations who can out-capitalism up. But protectionism, "Save out jobs!" mentality, and patriotism/jingoism isn't the correct way to address this.

I'm more than happy to buy quality American products, but I'm not going to buy into the party line that it makes me a bad person not to Buy From Home. If our country plans on being a producer of goods as well as a consumer, then we're going to have to start bringing real competition to table.

And, as someone said earlier, politics and economics go hand-in-hand, so I'd better stop.

[Langanobob]

And, as someone said earlier, politics and economics go hand-in-hand, so I'd better stop. Tongue

So far we've been courteous in our opinions and disagreements.  If we can keep that up, maybe we can get away with this    This has been an interesting thread and it'd be a shame if it gets locked.

I agree that jingoism doesn't work.  I remember the car companies, at the peak of their junk producing years, leaning on the "Buy American" slogan. And, I work on international power plant construction projects and too often I've seen US made industrial products that are POS, complete with their ISO 9000 certification. A Made in USA label is no longer a reasonable guarantee of quality. 

Like most problems there aren't any absolute rights or wrongs.  And to some extent I think we are "bad persons" when we choose say a cheap HF tool over a more expensive US tool.  Maybe we need to exert some individual discipline and made do with one good tool we can take pride in rather than two pieces of HF junk. 

I'm not much good at analogies and this one is terrible but it's kind of like we're lighting our feet on fire so that we can be warm and comfortable.   

[Duck-Stew]

Good enough analogy to convey the point man.

It's the hidden cost associated with cheap goods that people aren't seeing, don't care about, don't know about, etc...

[Speedbag]

Good enough analogy to convey the point man.

It's the hidden cost associated with cheap goods that people aren't seeing, don't care about, don't know about, etc...

....and I'd be willing to bet based on personal observation that the vast majority of the mouth-breathers found at the local Wal-Mart at any given moment are too ignorant to realize the significance of or take note of.

[Duck-Stew]

....and I'd be willing to bet based on personal observation that the vast majority of the mouth-breathers found at the local Wal-Mart at any given moment are too ignorant to realize the significance of or take note of.

I'll hoist an Italian glass of French Gin to that when I get home....  oh wait.... 

This is a tricky subject but as the above poster stated:  We've done a great job of keeping it civil thus far.

[redxblack]

The US has dealt with a crashing economy in an era of inexpensive labor costs once before. Look at the 1890s. We produced domestically and had abundant inexpensive labor. The economy crashed because the producers could not afford to also be consumers and we were overproducing like mad (see all the strikes in that decade). The end result was incredible wealth and poverty, then external expansion in Cuba and the Philippines to create more markets for captive audiences for our widgets.

Fast forward a hundred years and look backwards. The problems in the 1890s depression (at the time called the Great Depression) led to progressive reforms and livable wages. When the workers could afford to buy their own products by the postwar period, the economy was sustained and growing. Certainly there were other factors (leftovers from the great depression of the 30s, postwar military spending, etc), but I really can't see anything wrong with companies supplying the workers they want to retain a livable wage. If it was just about profitability, we could easily justify utilizing slave labor. We make moral decisions in economics all the time.

[Langanobob]

....and I'd be willing to bet based on personal observation that the vast majority of the mouth-breathers found at the local Wal-Mart at any given moment are too ignorant to realize the significance of or take note of.

And therein lies our problem.  The overwhelming majority of us are candidates for the "People of Wal-mart" website.  Aaaargh...