696 Coil Issue

Started by livefastdiefun99, August 27, 2008, 08:27:20 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Raux

well apparently there are some issues with the manuals.

we found that out in the HID topic. the manual says two H7 bulbs, but it has one H7 and one H1 on the bike.

Find a reputable dealer that knows what it is doing. and talk to them. Advanced Motorsports in Alvaredo is one that i know of. Ducati Oklahoma fixed mine so they know the correct way for sure.

golgofett

Just got my bike back today from the 600 mile service.  They ran my vin through the service computer and it said my bike was not affected by the coil issue.  My bike was built in June. 
2009 M1100 Gloss Black
Motovation Frame Sliders
Touring Seat
CRG Lanesplitters w/Rhinomoto Barends
Rizoma fender eliminator
Rizoma Avio 21's

Amlethae

Quote from: Murdered Monster on September 05, 2008, 04:19:12 PM
If your manual says it should be a certain way, then how do you know yours is wired wrong? Who told you that it was wrong? I'm not sure if mine has this problem or not and I too live a long way from a dealer. I sent an email to DNA and they told me that they had no information to pass along to me but if I was having a problem with my bike to take it to a dealer. I'm not having a problem, but I want to know if my bike could run better than it is.

I received an email with instructions on how to fix it from someone on the board -- he got it from a dealer -- I haven't recieved permission to post the email but it essentially says what I put on this thread.  I have not been able to ride the bike since I fixed the wires on my bike because I had to fly out of town immediately after.  But if my symptoms are gone (trouble starting, lurching at 3-4k rpm, oil temps between 375-390deg F constantly) then I'll know that the manual is wrong and this is the fix.  We'll see what happens.  Wish the dealers were more knowledgeable about the problem.
First bike (ever): 2008 Monster 696 [now it's the wife's]
Lost to the front end of a GMC truck: 2010 Monster 1100s w/ABS [miss it!]
Currently Riding: 2013 Streetfighter 848

Murdered Monster

Quote from: Amlethae on September 07, 2008, 11:42:49 AM
I received an email with instructions on how to fix it from someone on the board -- he got it from a dealer -- I haven't recieved permission to post the email but it essentially says what I put on this thread.  I have not been able to ride the bike since I fixed the wires on my bike because I had to fly out of town immediately after.  But if my symptoms are gone (trouble starting, lurching at 3-4k rpm, oil temps between 375-390deg F constantly) then I'll know that the manual is wrong and this is the fix.  We'll see what happens.  Wish the dealers were more knowledgeable about the problem.

Okay, thanks for the update. He also emailed it to me. I'm anxious to see how your bike runs now before I go messing with mine. If you would post about how it runs after you get a chance to ride it that would be helpful. Thanks again.
'09 M696 Dark

RichD

Quote from: Amlethae on September 04, 2008, 09:46:20 PM...I checked the wiring of the coils with the wiring diagram in the back of the 696 Owner's Manual and the way it is currently (wrongly) hooked up is correct according to that diagram...

Remember: A wire has TWO ends.
If the correct colors are in place on one end, they could be swapped at the other (the ECU connector!).

The diagram could  be right... did you check the other end to make sure it was coming from the right place?
DFW-MFer!

Amlethae

#35
Very Happy to Report:

I did the coil rewiring on Friday... went out of town all weekend... just took the first ride on her since I switched the wires.  I'm VERY HAPPY to report that even after sitting all weekend without being turned on, the engine immediately started on first press of the button.  The bike did not overheat at all but ran between 275deg F and 350deg F in a lot of stop & go traffic.  Way better than the 400deg F I was getting before!!  There is no more severe lurching in the 3k RPM range!  And best of all, the bike is a LOT MORE SPRY!  A bit scary after having learned on the 696 (my first bike) in cripple mode... it's a lot faster now... constantly ready to get up and GO!   Soooo.... if you're experiencing trouble starting, high oil temps constantly, and really bad lurching 3-4k RPM, then you've got the coil problem and you should look into it.   

Now I gotta go back to the dealer and tell them they were wrong to blow me off when I asked them to check it.


Quote from: SUPER DUKE! on September 07, 2008, 12:37:46 PM
Remember: A wire has TWO ends.
If the correct colors are in place on one end, they could be swapped at the other (the ECU connector!).

The diagram could  be right... did you check the other end to make sure it was coming from the right place?

Yes Super Duke makes a point that wires are connected on both ends.  However the ECU only has one wire going out to each coil pack.  The Gr/B wire goes to the horizontal pack, and the Gr/G wire goes to the vertical pack.  The Bn/W wires that are connected to the coils do not connect directly to the ECU but rather the Injector Relay.  You won't find the Bn/W wires coming off the ECU.  If you were to swap the Gr/B & Gr/G wires at the ECU you would in effect be swapping coil packs on the engine from one cylinder to the other.... NOT A GOOD IDEA.  So the only fix is to swap the Gr/* and Bn/W wires at each coil pack.  I assume -- though I'm no engineer -- that the Bn/W wires act as ground wires and the Gr/* wires giving positive signals to the coils.  With these wires reversed at the coils from the factory the coils are working in reverse which is not good for the engine nor the coils...

This kinda gets me to thinking that those who didn't get this checked/fixed until the 600 mile service might want to take a look at their spark plugs and also get Ducati to agree to replace the coils for free either immediately or if/when they break.  Not sure what kind of electronics are going on in the coils, but I assume there's a capacitor in there as well as a diode or two... and it's crucial that these elements not have reversed polarity EVER.  If Ducati agrees to this, those of us who fixed it ourselves may be out of luck unless they check the status against the VIN number.  I only had 150 miles on mine... not great to run for so long like that, but better than 600 miles certainly.

[beer]
First bike (ever): 2008 Monster 696 [now it's the wife's]
Lost to the front end of a GMC truck: 2010 Monster 1100s w/ABS [miss it!]
Currently Riding: 2013 Streetfighter 848

Murdered Monster

Thanks for the update. I will be checking mine in the next couple days.
'09 M696 Dark

Amlethae

There has been a question of where to find the coils/wires on the 696 and I want to be sure to share the answer with everyone.

The horizontal coil is marked with "O" on the wiring harness.  This is the easiest one to take a look at on the bike without taking things apart.  If you crawl under the front of the bike and look up behind the plastic radiator shroud, you'll see a couple of wires going into a black box with a label "O" on it.  This is that coil pack.  The other coil pack is underneath the gas tank -- search the forums for how to get there... either search for ECU replacing or how to get to the battery -- it is labeled with the letter "V".  Looking at the Ducati 696 Parts catalog will give you a better idea of where the coils are mounted.  The wiring diagram in the back of your manual will give you an idea of what the wire colors should look like -- but remember that the position of the Bn/W and Gr/* wires in the diagram are WRONG.

The easiest way by far to locate the coil packs however is to simply put your finger on the spark plug cable for each cylinder and follow it up to the coil pack.  The cable will have the same connector on both ends... the one for the vertical cylinder is a bit harder to follow, but much easier if you remove the tank first.  If you want to check if you have the issue or not, look at the horizontal coil pack wiring first cause it's much easier. 

I certainly recommend that everyone who knows they have the problem go to their dealer and have them fix it, so that the problem is recorded on the books officially if you have problems with your coils in the future.  If you would like to fix it yourself though, please PM me and I'll email you with directions... seriously you could hurt something if you don't read the directions first.  The connectors are very fragile.
First bike (ever): 2008 Monster 696 [now it's the wife's]
Lost to the front end of a GMC truck: 2010 Monster 1100s w/ABS [miss it!]
Currently Riding: 2013 Streetfighter 848

desmodan

All I can say is... yeesh, good work.  [thumbsup]
Currently:
Ducati Monster 696

Previous:
Victory Vegas 8-Ball, Honda CBR 600RR, Honda Shadow Sabre, Ducati 749S, Kawasaki Vulcan

Murdered Monster

Quote from: Amlethae on September 07, 2008, 07:45:56 PM


The horizontal coil is marked with "O" on the wiring harness.  This is the easiest one to take a look at on the bike without taking things apart.  If you crawl under the front of the bike and look up behind the plastic radiator shroud, you'll see a couple of wires going into a black box with a label "O" on it.  This is that coil pack. 

So you're saying that if this one is wired wrong, I have the coil problem? I don't need to pull the tank off to check the other one? I don't plan on doing it myself. I just want to check to see if I have the problem.
'09 M696 Dark

Amlethae

Quote from: Murdered Monster on September 08, 2008, 06:36:34 AM
So you're saying that if this one is wired wrong, I have the coil problem? I don't need to pull the tank off to check the other one? I don't plan on doing it myself. I just want to check to see if I have the problem.

I don't have definite confirmation that wrong wires on the horizontal harness == wrong wires on the vertical harness as well.  However, it is most likely that this is the case and therefore it's easy to confirm if you have the coil issue simply by looking up the bike's skirt (checking the horizontal coil wiring) rather than unscrewing anything!
First bike (ever): 2008 Monster 696 [now it's the wife's]
Lost to the front end of a GMC truck: 2010 Monster 1100s w/ABS [miss it!]
Currently Riding: 2013 Streetfighter 848

semyhr

Hi guys! Got my 696 last week and in this weekend drove the first 550km around the country with the break-in mode on ;) For the first 100km I did maximum 4000rpms and now I do about 5000rpms.

I have also been following this coil issue and from one side it seems like I don't have it because the max temperature that I get is 3 bars and one or two times I got 4 temperature bars.

Anyways what I have noticed is that it doesn't really like low rpms, like if you start to accelerate from 2000rpms it will give a lot of vibrations and shaking before it takes off nicely. This is my first ducati and first bike as such so I wonder if it's OK or it's not? ;)

I will also add the next question in this same topic - at 4000rpms it starts a slow knocking sound like tuk tuk tuk and then till 5000rpms it goes really fast. I like the sound but all the videos I have watched didn't have anything like that so I wonder if that is OK as well?

I have enjoyed this last weekend a lot, though I still don't like going too fast because of all the wind etc, but I guess that comes with time :)

Murdered Monster

Thanks for all of the help I got from everyone on this subject. I've figured out I have the dreaded coil problem. I have just over 1000 miles on my bike so I'm not sure if I'm going to do the switch myself or take it to a dealer, which is 2 hours away. I don't want to run into any problems with the coils going bad on me later on. Thanks again.  :)
'09 M696 Dark

Raux

Quote from: semyhr on September 08, 2008, 11:39:57 AM
Hi guys! Got my 696 last week and in this weekend drove the first 550km around the country with the break-in mode on ;) For the first 100km I did maximum 4000rpms and now I do about 5000rpms.

I have also been following this coil issue and from one side it seems like I don't have it because the max temperature that I get is 3 bars and one or two times I got 4 temperature bars.

Anyways what I have noticed is that it doesn't really like low rpms, like if you start to accelerate from 2000rpms it will give a lot of vibrations and shaking before it takes off nicely. This is my first ducati and first bike as such so I wonder if it's OK or it's not? ;)

I will also add the next question in this same topic - at 4000rpms it starts a slow knocking sound like tuk tuk tuk and then till 5000rpms it goes really fast. I like the sound but all the videos I have watched didn't have anything like that so I wonder if that is OK as well?

I have enjoyed this last weekend a lot, though I still don't like going too fast because of all the wind etc, but I guess that comes with time :)

you 4k knocking sounds like the coil. i didnt really see a problem until i rode to 600k service. 70 mph on highway in 6th is about 4-4.5k with 15t sprocket... and it nearly overheated the whole 1 hour ride. kept having to slow down and cool off.

get it checked

Murdered Monster

I fixed the coil issue this morning. It wasn't that bad. The bike runs a lot smoother. No more surging.  [thumbsup]
'09 M696 Dark