I need to be less hard on those not mechanically inclined/knowledgeable.

[Popeye the Sailor]

I mean, I started wrenching on things that didn't work aroung 15 years ago. Restored a number of basket case cars-things that now I wouldn't even consider working on, they were so far gone.
The first car-had no working brakes, motor, transmission, no floor, rotted out doors, 3/4 of the frame had rotted away, a melted electrical harness, and severe body rot. I fabricated fender pieces based on old pictures I could find, because that was the only way to know what it used to look like.

It's hard for me to read posts about "how to prop up a tank" or "how to take off a wheel"....or "what's the torque value of my drain plug?" (I don't know a single mechanic who doesn't just snug it by hand, incidentally). To make matters worse, most of the people I wrench with are of similar background-never bought a working car in their life, delivered pizzas in a '66 Mustang, etc etc.

I forget these things just...aren't obvious to some people. They've never owned tools before. Never taken it apart. No idea how it works. Not that I'm a great help in the local tech forum. I'm somewhat new to bikes (4 years or so now), and while I've rebuilt a couple, I'm no authority. I can probably fix mine-I don't know how yours works offhand. Definitely not well enough to diagnose online. It's just some of these questions seem so.....absurd to me-am I wrong?

Do we need a "how to" on washing a bike? Is there really a worry about riding a bike in the rain-the same one that gets routinely washed with the garden hose? How to clean your visor? This isn't directed at any one person, just wondering if I'm not the only one who thinks some of these things are woefully obvious?

[DarkStaR]

I agree.  Some people just get it, and some don't.  It still surprises me from time to time, but..I'm getting use to it.

For the record, I've been turning wrenches for over 20 years now.  At one point I was getting paid for it.

I had a buddy ask how to get gas in the f'n thing.  I though to my self: "how can you not know?"  After thinking about it, he can do many other things better than I can, and at those moments, he probably thinks the same of me. 

Example: I am decent with a wrench.  But, I'm not very good communicating professionally...sh!t...I not very good communicating PERIOD.

It's all give and take.  We can't be good at everything.

If anyone says they ARE good at everything, they're f'n liars, or clueless.

But I will say, there are people out there that should NOT be working on their own motorcycles.  Their lack of ability seems dangerous to me.

[Popeye the Sailor]

But I will say, there are people out there that should NOT be working on their own motorcycles.  Their lack of ability seems dangerous to me.

+11ty billion.


My other pet peeve is when those same people offer to teach others. Those people, I *will* be harsh on.

[stopintime]

You're right to be surprised, but you're also adult enough to understand that not everyone can have the same amount of knowledge as you.

Some will laugh at people like you who spend so much time figuring out "stuff" and doing it yourselves - "why not let someone else do it for you - spend time with people, not things". I think it's a logical argument when people don't understand that this is a passion, not something we do to save money or hide from reality.

I used to do most of the work on my beater cars 20 years ago, now I'm no longer interested. My comeback as a biker this year made me curious again. Ducati has a unique way of sparking curiosity. I started figuring out how to wash it, clean/check/wax the chain, prop up the tank. On the DML and DMF I was/am able to learn as I go. Six months ago I knew nothing about my bike - today I can and will do smaller jobs. For me it was a big deal to mount the new touring screen, levers and adjusting them, rotating the bars and controls. I'm proud of my little steps, even though I know there is more to learn than I will ever get around to.

The big DMF deal for me is that not once have I felt embarrassed to ask or felt that someone has talked down to me.

[DarkStaR]

The big DMF deal for me is that not once have I felt embarrassed to ask or felt that someone has talked down to me.

You just haven't been here long enough.   

[red baron]

someguy,

stop being miserable and take a day off.













 

[He Man]

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1554.0


I'm still trying to figure out why that was posted.

But for the people who ask " HOW DO I REMOVE A CLUTCH LEVER??" the response i always want to write is..

DID YOU EVEN make the beast with two backsING TRY?? Seriously, did you even LOOK AT IT???

1 pivot point....1 thing with a slot....screwdriver.....OH IT COMES OFF!!!!

PS. I wrench because i cannot afford to watch someone wrench. We are a product of our enviornment, and all my toys were things that previous owners didnt know how to fix. If i did paid someone to wrench though...id be eating maggot infested peaches....oh wait i already do. oh well. 

You're right to be surprised, but you're also adult enough to understand that not everyone can have the same amount of knowledge as you.

Some will laugh at people like you who spend so much time figuring out "stuff" and doing it yourselves - "why not let someone else do it for you - spend time with people, not things". I think it's a logical argument when people don't understand that this is a passion, not something we do to save money or hide from reality.

I used to do most of the work on my beater cars 20 years ago, now I'm no longer interested. My comeback as a biker this year made me curious again. Ducati has a unique way of sparking curiosity. I started figuring out how to wash it, clean/check/wax the chain, prop up the tank. On the DML and DMF I was/am able to learn as I go. Six months ago I knew nothing about my bike - today I can and will do smaller jobs. For me it was a big deal to mount the new touring screen, levers and adjusting them, rotating the bars and controls. I'm proud of my little steps, even though I know there is more to learn than I will ever get around to.

The big DMF deal for me is that not once have I felt embarrassed to ask or felt that someone has talked down to me.

Different issue, if you can afford to pay someone to do it, then dont ask how to..... just pay them to do it...

Just because all my friends are with their families and enjoying their time of, and im stuck here with no family, im gonna bust your chops. =)
You shouldnt need to ask how to wash a bike. Its not made of flour and it will not melt. Do wash smartly, dont open your tank and spray the battery with water. how to check a chain is a good question. When to adjust it is a good question. How to clean it, isnt. My best answer... scrub it! What chemicals would you recommend to use on the chain, is a good question. How to adjust chain tension, is a good question. How to rotate the bar....well. It goes back to my first question, did you try before you ask? 

Okay im done beating up on you. Im going back to being grumpy and sourcing a store with more beer.

[Popeye the Sailor]

But for the people who ask " HOW DO I REMOVE A CLUTCH LEVER??" the response i always want to write is..

DID YOU EVEN make the beast with two backsING TRY?? Seriously, did you even LOOK AT IT???

1 pivot point....1 thing with a slot....screwdriver.....OH IT COMES OFF!!!!

You're missing the point. Which is-if you don't know-it's not actually obvious.


Example. My mother was a baker. One day, she was teaching me how to make a chocolate cake. This involved melting chocolate. She told me to get a clean bowl, melt the chocolate in it.

I got one that was recently washed, and still had water in it. For those of you who don't know, getting water (any amount) into melted chocolate, ruins the chocolate.  I of course, not knowing this, ruined the chocolate. To her, this was a completely idiotic mistake-it was *so* common knowledge in her world that the idea of me not knowing this was rediculous.

My response was "How would I know? Why would I know? Why on earth would this ever come up in my normal day-to-day life?" It was a mystery at the time.


It's the same with wrenching. Some people have no experience. They know nothing. They can't go get a 12mm flare wrench to do that flange tightening because they don't even know what one is.


This is what I've been doing-being harsh on inexperienced people who don't know, and this, is not okay for me to do. You shoul dlook back on when you were learning, and decide what sort of response you would've liked to some of your questions.

[DarkStaR]

I applaud the ones who go out of their way to make (proper) How-To posts for everyone  , but I'll have to say that I actually learn more from reading how people fu@K-up their stuff.

Example:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=9795.msg176548#msg176548

I NOW know how NOT to install an oil cooler.

[He Man]

You're missing the point. Which is-if you don't know-it's not actually obvious.


Example. My mother was a baker. One day, she was teaching me how to make a chocolate cake. This involved melting chocolate. She told me to get a clean bowl, melt the chocolate in it.

I got one that was recently washed, and still had water in it. For those of you who don't know, getting water (any amount) into melted chocolate, ruins the chocolate.  I of course, not knowing this, ruined the chocolate. To her, this was a completely idiotic mistake-it was *so* common knowledge in her world that the idea of me not knowing this was rediculous.

My response was "How would I know? Why would I know? Why on earth would this ever come up in my normal day-to-day life?" It was a mystery at the time.


It's the same with wrenching. Some people have no experience. They know nothing. They can't go get a 12mm flare wrench to do that flange tightening because they don't even know what one is.


This is what I've been doing-being harsh on inexperienced people who don't know, and this, is not okay for me to do. You shoul dlook back on when you were learning, and decide what sort of response you would've liked to some of your questions.

Theres a difference between visually obvious, and knowledge obvious. I did not know that water ruins the chocolate. Thats not visually obvious. you dont know until you actually make the mistake.

But machines are different. machines are put together, therefore they can be taken apart. If a screw holds a horn to the frame and is held tight by a bolt on the other side, its visually obvious that removing the bolt will loosen the screw, and the screw will come out.

The case of the cholate and water. Well, if you pour water over cholate it just skims of. Chocolate is not soul able with water. But if you melt the cholate, maybe you boil the water into the cholate, i dont know. its not visually obvious.

That oil cooler thing totally blows. It was a mistake. Too much tension or maybe the torque wrench was off. who knows.

[Statler]

you know those written tests where there's a diagram with lots of pulleys and wheels and levers, and you are asked which way the one on the right side will turn if you turn the one on the left side counter clockwise?

Some people can look at those and think they are stupidly simple.  Some can never ever figure it out.

If i was easy for you to figure out the first time on your bike how to pull up to a gas pump and do the entire procedure while sitting on the bike, then great....seams simple to me too, but I have taught many people how easy it is to get gas without getting off the bike.

'common sense'  is only because of your background and how you grew up.    There are a great many people who are adults who have never used a screwdriver.

Like Dave, I have to catch myself but not about bikes...just about mechanical sympathy.   The other household member here truly cannot tell the difference in pitch when the shopvac is clogged with dog hair.  To me this is truly painfully obvious.  She has learned just to disassemble hoses every other use regardless.  But it took me some time to not be a bit of an ass.     She of course gets to look at me like an idiot when I don't know how to stitch a laceration....  'oh common...just look at it...it's obvious where the stiches go...idiot'

[stopintime]

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=1554.0




Different issue, if you can afford to pay someone to do it, then dont ask how to..... just pay them to do it...

Just because all my friends are with their families and enjoying their time of, and im stuck here with no family, im gonna bust your chops. =)
You shouldnt need to ask how to wash a bike. Its not made of flour and it will not melt. Do wash smartly, dont open your tank and spray the battery with water. how to check a chain is a good question. When to adjust it is a good question. How to clean it, isnt. My best answer... scrub it! What chemicals would you recommend to use on the chain, is a good question. How to adjust chain tension, is a good question. How to rotate the bar....well. It goes back to my first question, did you try before you ask? 

Okay im done beating up on you. Im going back to being grumpy and sourcing a store with more beer.

I didn't even feel that one - wanna try again?

I wash my bike differently than I do cars, but I knew how water plays a role (knew about the chocolate as well) - I needed to learn which products to use and which NOT to use. So I asked, learned and will answer others who ask me. That's normal, isn't it?

About rotating the bars - I didn't ask, I just wanted to see if rotating them would allow my wrists to fall in place - tried it and it worked. When I tightened them down I did the front bolts first, then the rear. In theory that could bend the bolts - I didn't know before I did it, luckily I understood by watching and was able to correct it. Had I asked first, someone would have told me to tighten them in a pattern that would make it all even.

I'm now a self educated graduate in mirror science and when people, who don't know what I know, ask "obvious" questions I have two choices - "you're an idiot" or "I can help you". Helping others is a good feeling for me, I like doing it (most often).

What else do I know? I now know that the things I figure out myself is "worth" more to me than the things others told me. I just don't have the time to figure out everything by myself. So, I'll keep asking and DMF'ers will continue answering. It's a great way of educating each other.



BTW - I don't have a family to take care of either.

[Howie]

you got water in the chocolate? Surely you don't expect me to let you change my oil

Seriously, in my over 40 years of wrenching on cars and teaching people how to wrench on cars I cant even begin to tell you the disasters I've seen from people touching a wrong screw or using a wrong fluid, and some of these folks have had great mechanical aptitude and excellent technical knowledge. 

[lauramonster]

Bust on those that don't use the search key, read the entire thread, don't describe what they're talking about - cause they haven't even looked first. 

For the rest of us, take a deep breath, extend the olive branch and talk to us like we're a two year old.

Dad was a butcher, mom was a school bus driver.  Wanna know how to carve meat or how to nudge someone out of the lane gracefully?  I'm you're go to gal.  Ducatis? I'v got DNS tattooed across my forehead.  Some mistakes I don't want to do, because I don't know what those harmful chemicals will do to the finish of the ducati's plastic parts ( Yup!  Been there, crapped them up!) . 

I enjoy reading all those dub questions cause I have no knowledge.  (But Dave, some questions are so dumb even I !!!  Hence, the first sentence!!

[jdubbs32584]

Bust on those that don't use the search key, read the entire thread, don't describe what they're talking about - cause they haven't even looked first. 

For the rest of us, take a deep breath, extend the olive branch and talk to us like we're a two year old.

Dad was a butcher, mom was a school bus driver.  Wanna know how to carve meat or how to nudge someone out of the lane gracefully?  I'm you're go to gal.  Ducatis? I'v got DNS tattooed across my forehead.  Some mistakes I don't want to do, because I don't know what those harmful chemicals will do to the finish of the ducati's plastic parts ( Yup!  Been there, crapped them up!) . 

I enjoy reading all those dub questions cause I have no knowledge.  (But Dave, some questions are so dumb even I !!!  Hence, the first sentence!!

What she said.