Rear brakes caught fire - time to upgrade?

[NateDog]

So, I just picked up my '02 Monster 750 Dark from the shop after having the 24K service done. Heading home on the highway and suddenly noticed the engine working a lot harder to keep up speed - something's not right. I pull off at the next exit (in a construction zone - no shoulder on the highway), stop the bike and get off. My rear brakes had seized and actually caught fire.    It appears that the heat from the seized pads melted the seals causing brake fluid to leak which immediately combusted. I put the fire out, but not before the flames melted the speedo sensor.   

It looks like the pads, rotor and caliper are all shot, as well as the speedo sensor. I have two questions:

1. This has got to be the shop's fault, right? Part of the 24K service includes bleeding the brake lines, changing the pads, etc. I figure that somewhere along the line they messed things up. I know I wasn't riding the brakes - I ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs and can't reach the rear brake pedal without shifting my feet.  I had only gone about 5 miles, and had only used the rear brake to hold the bike in place at a stop light while I stretched. I typically rely on my front brake for any stopping power. Am I wrong to hold them responsible? Any chance that the shop is not at fault?

2. Should I consider upgrading the rear brakes? If this is in fact the shop's fault they will be paying for replacement parts & labor, but should I consider paying the difference for upgraded brakes? If so, what would you recommend?

[Slide Panda]

1. This has got to be the shop's fault, right? I know I wasn't riding the brakes as I ride with the balls of my feet on the pegs and can't reach the rear brake pedal without shifting my feet.  I had only gone about 5 miles, and had only used the rear brake to hold the bike in place at a stop light while I stretched. I typically rely on my front brake for any stopping power.

Nope.  Doesn't have to be at all.  Did they even mess with your brakes?  I know my shop didn't touch my rear brake as part of a 24k.  And I had near the exact same scenario play out on my 620.  It was due to grime on the pad guide pin.  The grime caused the pad to hang up and rub on the rotor with results similar to yours. 

After that I did some more reading, and LT synder recommends that you pull those pins out and hit them with a wire brush every few thousand miles to prevent pad hangs.  You ever clean off that pin?

2. Should I consider upgrading the rear brakes? If this is in fact the shop's fault they will be paying for replacement parts & labor, but should I consider paying the difference for upgraded brakes? If so, what would you recommend?

You'll probably have to use the same caliper, you don't really need anything more back there.  I put on a braking wave rotor back there and some semi metallic pads and there's plenty nuff bite to lock the rear wheel if I get dumb.

[NateDog]

I checked the pad guide pins - they were clean.

The shop did mess with the rear brakes. They changed and adjusted the pads, bled the lines, etc. After the fire when I got it back to the shop one of the mechanics mentioned that he had noticed the pads sticking when he took it for a test ride after they worked on it. If they noticed it was sticking after working on it shouldn't they have checked/fixed it?

To be fair the shop owner had taken it for a ride and said that he hadn't noticed any problems.

[NateDog]

I just found Brembo's technical notes regarding bleeding the brakes (which the shop did). They have these warnings listed:

- Avoid overfilling the master cylinder reservoir. Too much fluid will result in brake drag or even brake lock.

- MAKE SURE the master cylinder lever has at least 0.1mm freeplay between the lever cam or pushrod and the piston, i.e. - be positive that the piston is FULLY returned when the lever is released. EVEN SLIGHT ENGAGEMENT OF THE PISTON CAN RESULT IN BRAKE DRAG AND/OR LOCKUP!!!

I really don't want to have to pay for this - especially if the shop is at fault. On the other hand I want to be fair and don't want to hold them responsible if they are not at fault. Is there any way to know?

[Slide Panda]

Well, looks like you've got a decent case on you hands for them being at fault especially with the mech telling you he noticed some pad stick.  Based on the fact that they did do work which could effected the operation your brakes, and you have a massive failure 1st time you ride after their work, it does cast doubt that the work was done 100% properly.

They probably didn't adjust the pushrod though - no reason for that.  But swapping in new pads for old means that the pistons are going to be pushed back into the calipers to accommodate the new (thicker) pads.. so it is a possibility that resulted in a 'over full' situation.... But then again, if they did things right, they should have bleed after mounting the new pads, which would (propbably) negate the over filling situation...

There's a lot of ifs and buts here.  When it all shakes out, you should talk to the shop about it.  Bike was fine when it went in, and now has had a failure of a system they worked on which puts the onus on them

[Duc Fever]

one of the mechanics mentioned that he had noticed the pads sticking when he took it for a test ride after they worked on it.

That says it all right there.  If a mechanic that just worked on the brakes goes for a test ride and notices the pads are now sticking, they need to fix it before returning the bike. That could have been a real safety issue, what if the brake would have locked up when you were at highway speed??? nothing good could have come from that.

[Howie]

Not too much to upgrade back there, and probably not much point to it.  Whatever brake pads and rotor you like is it.  Cost should not be much different, maybe even a little less.

The dealer certainly should not have released the bike if the tech noticed a problem.  On the other hand, one could say you should have noticed earlier and stopped riding.  I'm not trying to put any fault on you since I know some really good riders who have set their back brake on fire,  real easy to do if you are cruising at speed.  If the dealer refuses to take responsibility you may want to offer to share the cost.  You are getting added value if they are replacing six year old parts with brand new ones. 

The big negotiating lever here is "one of the mechanics mentioned that he had noticed the pads sticking when he took it for a test ride after they worked on it.", as Duc Fever stated.

[NateDog]

Wow guys, thanks for all the input! 

Not too much to upgrade back there, and probably not much point to it.  Whatever brake pads and rotor you like is it.  Cost should not be much different, maybe even a little less.

That's what I figured, but thought that I would get some additional input.

The dealer certainly should not have released the bike if the tech noticed a problem.  On the other hand, one could say you should have noticed earlier and stopped riding.  I'm not trying to put any fault on you since I know some really good riders who have set their back brake on fire,  real easy to do if you are cruising at speed.

The funny thing is that the change was almost instantaneous. One minute the bike was running great - the next I noticed a significant lack of power and the bike started slowing down. Since I was in a construction zone on the highway with no shoulder and concrete barriers on both sides my only option was to keep going till the next exit, which happened to be around 3/4 away. I slowed down as much as I dared and moved to the far right lane, but it still proved too much for the pads/calipers. The only thing that I can imagine is that the bumpy surface shook something loose and somehow caused the pads to seize.

If the dealer refuses to take responsibility you may want to offer to share the cost.  You are getting added value if they are replacing six year old parts with brand new ones. 

The big negotiating lever here is "one of the mechanics mentioned that he had noticed the pads sticking when he took it for a test ride after they worked on it.", as Duc Fever stated.

I spoke with the shop owner this afternoon and he agreed to pay for all the replacement parts (caliper: $88, master cylinder: $51, speedo sensor: $180  , total: $319 and change). Since there's really no proof that the shop is at fault I offered to pay for the labor to repair it. Ultimately I am satisfied with the outcome and think that this is a fair solution for all involved.

I have to say that I have been very impressed with the way that the shop owner has handled the whole situation - very professional and he maintained an excellent attitude throughout the whole ordeal. A big  for Mike at Supertune Motorsports in Denver.

[Heath]

........ - very professional and he maintained an excellent attitude throughout the whole ordeal. ........

I would too if my shop messed up a bike and the customer offered to pay the labor to fix it.  If I were you I would not have gave them any more money.

[Slide Panda]

I spoke with the shop owner this afternoon and he agreed to pay for all the replacement parts (caliper: $88, master cylinder: $51, speedo sensor: $180  , total: $319 and change). Since there's really no proof that the shop is at fault I offered to pay for the labor to repair it. Ultimately I am satisfied with the outcome and think that this is a fair solution for all involved.

Don't forget a rotor!  At least in my situation the rotor was trashed.  No fire for me, just a white hot rotor that ended up blowing the brake hose from it's banjo end.  Even in the bright sun I could see that the rotor was glowing.  Though not related to that incident, I got that braking wave rotor for $30 less than an OEM rotor from PJsParts.com

Sounds like a good deal, and it's nice to hear that the shop was so willing to own up to the possibility of their mistake, and take steps to make it right.  It's good to hear there are still some solid operators out there. 

On a sorta related note - you could do the rear rotor work by yourself.  You need a rear stand and some hand tools to have the wheel off.  It's not a hard job at all.  Might be a little time consuming setting up a dry brake system, but not hard.  If you opt to do it yourself, but have some questions - the tech section's your buddy.

[Howie]

Good to hear all is working out

Since the back rotor is fixed, checking for distortion is easy.  .3 mm max. run out.  If the rotor is blue or bronze in color (after cleaning, since there is probably burnt fluid all over it) the rotor is overheated.

[tangueroHondo]

This is an amazing story!  I'll file it accordingly, as reference material.

[tangueroHondo]

This is an amazing story!  I'll file it accordingly, as reference material.

[squidwood]

I had a very similar story back in 1995 on my Triumph Daytona 900.
The dealer fixed everything under warranty.
They were great!