Crash Analysis: learning from our mistakes

[johnster]

1st of all, glad you are OK!!!   

I did something stupid on an off-ramp yesterday. I was coming back from a pretty spirited ride, getting off the exit to my house from the highway. For some reason (adrenaline pumping I guess) I decided to drag knee through the off-ramp (it's a right-left sweeper) at about 70mph. 

Afterwards, I was like "Why the hell did I just do that?!?! It's such a frequently-used off-ramp, I KNOW there's sand + oil on it!!" 

Regarding frame sliders: as a newbie on a new Monster I also considered getting them but I heard/read that they can bend the frame.
Is this true at all or shall I get them without concerns? If yes which brand/type are best for S2R 1K?

^
Usually only if the bike is tipped over onto it at a standstill could this happen, due to the blunt lateral force on the frame. When (and if) you lowside, the bike is moving horizontally faster than it is vertically, so the force is distributed more effectively. At least that's what I've heard, don't quote me on that.

[ghostface]

Well I lowsided today. 

Brief summary of the crash

Basically I was exiting Hwy 101 south onto Washington Blvd in Petaluma (an off ramp that is very well used and has a lot of oil and debris caked on it). The recommended speed is 20 I was probably doing 30. The rear wheel came loose on me, I tried to plant my right foot to get it back but it didn't work. The bike slid away from me spinning on he frame slider until it came to a stop. I wasn't on the ground for maybe a couple of seconds when I popped up, looked behind me for cars, ran over to the bike, picked it up and rolled it over to the side of the exit.

What you did right

I was wearing all the gear. I was wearing Alpinestars SMX Plus Boots, Draggin Jeans(with kevlar lining and knee pads) Forcefield Body Armor shorts underneath the jeans, Dianese Back protector), Alpinestars jacket with armor , Racer gauntlet gloves and a Shoei RF-1000 helmet.

I came out of it without a scratch but Im sure Ill be sore tomorrow.

What you did wrong

What I did wrong was underestimate how slick the exit was. It is one of the main streets in Petaluma. What I think happened was the exit is so well used that even 10 MPH over the recommended speed along with the heat of the day made the asphalt very slippery.

How could it have been avoided

Go the recommended speed on off ramps. They are all well used and can get very slick, especially during hot days.

The damage isnt too bad. Bent suburban-machinery handlebars, CRG bar end mirror gone, speedy moto frameslider did its job, rear brake lever bent and ground 1/2 way down, carbon fiber muffler heat shield ground 1/2 way off and slightly damaged carbon fiber Termignoni pipes.

It sucks but I am ok and the damage isnt too bad so all in all I fell very lucky, it could have been way worse.

With the leg out I say you need a supermoto, and with the frame sliders I heard they twist frames. I'm happy you made it out clean and didn't get hurt tho. I repair bodies and let me tell you, a bike is easier to repair. +1 for wearing your gear.

[2 Wheel Wanderer]

Hi!
Good you didn't hurt yourself and your bike! 

Regarding frame sliders: as a newbie on a new Monster I also considered getting them but I heard/read that they can bend the frame.
Is this true at all or shall I get them without concerns? If yes which brand/type are best for S2R 1K?

venomousr1993 and slick slick I'd get the frame sliders, they most definitely work. Mine are from speedymoto.

Heres a link. https://secure.speedymoto.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=09-0201&Category_Code=FS

Another good thing is that when I replace em I only have to buy new pucks for $35.

With the leg out I say you need a supermoto, and with the frame sliders I heard they twist frames. I'm happy you made it out clean and didn't get hurt tho. I repair bodies and let me tell you, a bike is easier to repair. +1 for wearing your gear.

Mmmm supermoto doh!! Sometime in the future I may have to buy one!

I've actually lowsided before on this bike and the framesliders did their job then as well (I was going about 15 MPH around an uphill hairpin and lost traction on the front wheel). The thing is if you hit the ground with enough force to bend the frame your bikes probably going to be toast anyway, so why not have em on the bike.

And about gear, I NEVER leave the house without wearing All my gear. After my 1st lowside my left nkee got pretty tore up from the road. I was wearing jeans. After that I bought some kevlar reinforced Draggin jeans w/kneepads and Forcefield Body Armour shorts to wear underneath. Wearing that and the rest of my gear saved my ass.

I was sore for a day afterwards and have a bruise the size of a quarter on the right side of my torso, thats it.

+11ty Mill about wearing all the gear. I cringe when I see people out there wearing anything less.

[slick]

Thanks for the info, I will order the sliders then!

[johno]

Brief summary of the crash: A new rider (1300 miles of experience) trying to ride within his limits was provided a wonderful learning opportunity.
 
Almost 90 degree left hand turn that rolls slightly away and downhill.  Back road route almost 2 miles from home at the end of a lightweight and fun Sunday ride.   
 
This turn's down and away nature helps to make it appear "blind" coming up on it because the downhill slope makes it difficult to see through the turn.  Survival responses worked in conjunction to introduce rider and bike to the gravel soft should and Mr. Guard Rail.  Based on some feedback, I am not the first nor probably won't be the last to have fallen victim to this particular turn.
 
 
What you did right: 
 - I bought potentially expensive Italian paperweight from Charles at Hattar Moto in San Rafael CA who must be rich in positive Karma.  Unbeknownst to me, Charles happened to be out on a ride same day, time and route and was the first rider on the scene to help me get home not 5 minutes after the accident in an area where I was getting no cell coverage.  Charles rocks.  If you have an opportunity to work with him, I would encourage it.
 - Good safety gear from helmet to my toes.
 - Took MSF, and read Total Control and Twist II so I could have the language here to describe how easy rookie riders can fall victim to survival responses.
 - Well insured with gap insurance to help zero out my loan if needed so not too financially hurt.
 - I felt like to was riding at 75% of my ability, but...
 
What you did wrong ( I may order these up on T-Shirts since the list never seems to change)
 - ....with only 1300 miles under my belt, it's hard to have positive automatic survival responses even though I thought I was riding at what I thought was a mature easy pace.
 - Ultimately I was in too fast for a turn that did not allow me to see all the way through for my skill level which contributed to the survival response.
 - Target fixation (guardrail) and general lack of looking through the turn
 - Ineffective steering survival response.  I was in the gravel early in the turn leading me to believe that my fixation and panic made steering near impossible enough to loose it into gravel soft shoulder.
 - Lack of faith in my contact patch that could have allowed me to continue to counter steer and look through the turn in the face of survival response.
 - I am still a little IZ_ on the final panic stricken details but I think I actually put my inside foot out like a dirt track rider.  But, I don't have any dirt track experience.  So, not sure how that became by autonomic response.
 - I probably tried to brake too late in the turn.
 
How could it have been avoided
 - Braking earlier
 - More vision practice seeing through the turn
 - More practice with left hand turns in a parking lot developing more comfort with the lean, push, counter steer to combat automatic survival responses.  My left side seems to be my worse side if some riders have turns that are harder than others.
 
The board now has another cliché post of rookie rider wrapping his brand new bike around a guard rail.  I felt personally I had the maturity to ride it well within my skill level.  I felt that the risk of getting hurt was for 25 year old hot doggers splitting traffic at 90 mph after having a few beers.  I don't drink, took the MSF was 2 books in and still put the shiny side down.  It's hard as a rookie rider to think it's going to happen to you with many of the stories about riders pushing to find their outer limits.  I felt like I was just enjoying my experience and not really pushing - but my experience was such that I was going to be at risk almost anywhere/anytime.
 
If there are only two types of riders, those who have been down and those who will, I have joined the list of riders who have been down without too much damage to self.  X-rays say nothing broken.  Just some bruises to self and ego. 
 
Ride safe.

johno

[Popeye the Sailor]

Brief summary of the crash: A new rider (1300 miles of experience) trying to ride within his limits was provided a wonderful learning opportunities.
 
Almost 90% left hand turn that rolls slightly away and downhill.  Back road route almost 2 miles from home at the end of a lightweight and fun Sunday ride.   
 
This turn's down and away nature helps to make it appear "blind" coming up on it because the downhill slope makes it difficult to see through the turn.  Survival responses worked in conjunction to introduce rider and bike to the gravel soft should and Mr. Guard Rail.  Based on some feedback, I am not the first nor probably won't be the last to have fallen victim to this particular turn.
 
 
What you did right: 
 - I bought potentially expensive Italian paperweight from Charles at Hattar Moto in San Rafael CA who must be rich in positive Karma.  Unbeknownst to me, Charles happened to be out on a ride same day, time and route and was the first rider on the scene to help me get home not 5 minutes after the accident in an area where I was getting no cell coverage.  Charles rocks.  If you have an opportunity to work with him, I would encourage it.
 - Good safety gear from helmet to my toes.
 - Took MSF, and read Total Control and Twist II so I could have the language here to describe how easy rookie riders can fall victim to survival responses.
 - Well insured with gap insurance to help zero out my loan if needed so not too financially hurt.
 - I felt like to was riding at 75% of my ability, but...
 
What you did wrong ( I may order these up on T-Shirts since the list never seems to change)
 - ....with only 1300 miles under my belt, it's hard to have positive automatic survival responses even though I thought I was riding at what I thought was a mature easy pace.
 - Ultimately I was in too fast for a turn that did not allow me to see all the way through for my skill level which contributed to the survival response.
 - Target fixation (guardrail) and general lack of looking through the turn
 - Ineffective steering survival response.  I was in the gravel early in the turn leading me to believe that my fixation and panic made steering near impossible enough to loose it into gravel soft shoulder.
 - Lack of faith in my contact patch that could have allowed me to continue to counter steer and look through the turn in the face of survival response.
 - I am still a little IZ_ on the final panic stricken details but I think I actually put my inside foot out like a dirt track rider.  But, I don't have any dirt track experience.  So, not sure how that became by autonomic response.
 - I probably tried to brake too late in the turn.
 
How could it have been avoided
 - Braking earlier
 - More vision practice seeing through the turn
 - More practice with left hand turns in a parking lot developing more comfort with the lean, push, counter steer to combat automatic survival responses.  My left side seems to be my worse side if some riders have turns that are harder than others.
 
The board now has another cliché post of rookie rider wrapping his brand new bike around a guard rail.  I felt personally I had the maturity to ride it well within my skill level.  I felt that the risk of getting hurt was for 25 year old hot doggers splitting traffic at 90 mph after having a few beers.  I don't drink, took the MSF was 2 books in and still put the shiny side down.  It's hard as a rookie rider to think it's going to happen to you with many of the stories about riders pushing to find their outer limits.  I felt like I was just enjoying my experience and not really pushing - but my experience was such that I was going to be at risk almost anywhere/anytime.
 
If there are only two types of riders, those who have been down and those who will, I have joined the list of riders who have been down without too much damage to self.  X-rays say nothing broken.  Just some bruises to self and ego. 
 
Ride safe.

johno

Excellent writeup, and hopefully a warning to other new riders who think it's merely a matter of just going easy on the throttle to stay safe.

[DuciD03]

  .....OK this came form another thread and I got onto reminicing about my first surprise crash.  Sooo I'll offer up this humbling experiance and invite others to share to see who has bragging rights ...

....now that clutch cover looks very similar to the one i saw on the brand new Honda 600 crb rr guy that slid 30 seconds in front of me for 100 ft ( I could see the frame slider marks on the ashphalt; frame slider was ground down 1 inch! they are good for something) on a hairpin .... luckly it was only the clutch cover that was scratched right through just like yours and an bit of road rash on his riding leathers ...  i hope your the damage was only to the bike & ego and U'er OK!.  The crash analysis on the honda was he either hit the rear break too hard or let out the clutch too agressivly going into the turn in first ... rubber side down is more fun and less expensive ....  we all fall off hopefully to tell the tale ....

That reminds me when .... I leart what a "high side" (or is lat low side) on a cold fall day early on a sunny sunday moring with a light 2 inch snowfall ;taking a corner on an oiled gravel hill as I goosed the throttal around a bend; heading towards the warm moring sun I had the back side sliding fine; kicking up snow and gravel on a TS 75 at 14 yrs old  ... FUN untill i saw the sunny spot; I knew it was going to happen but i couldnt do anything; the back wheel bit hard; much to my surprise, bike stood up straight at 90 degrees to the road; I high sided; and shot ...  20 ft down an embankment onto rocks; hit the handle bars with my chest, chin hit something; knocked the wind out of myself and the bike landed on my leg and I couldn't move for 2 minutes.  As I began to breath normally realised that no one would ever find me so I had to pull myself from under the bike; drag the bike up the hill; with very sore foot & ribs (it hurt to breath, today i realise that they were fractured, back then ...) .... after a couple of kicks started her up and continued on slowly with a bent shifter, sore ribs and foot .... misery loves company; that was all to make ya feel better ... cheers DD [moto] 

[Smokescreen]

Brief summary of the crash

We'll backtrack to about noon Tuesday...  I don't know how, but a guy ate it.  Clocked out, released his mortal bounds.  Before the medics realized he was toast, the chopper landed on the runout of one of the larger turns below Mt. Wilson.  In attempting to save this unfortunate soul, the chopper blew pea sized gravel (asphalt) all over the road...
It's 330, and I decide, out of character, that i'll leather up, and leave my puter at home.  Head down the hill, spirited pace, but not the normal playtime pace.  all is well in the world!
I pass Nuke's, no worries!  Pass Wilson, all is well, and I'm looking forward to the ladybug turn!!  Above the ladybug, is a beautiful right hander with a large runout.  I run into it, i assume at around 65mph (spirited, not crazy) and about 2/3's through the turn I hit outlying gravel.  The bike slides, so I try to stand it up and run down speed before the rail and then cut in and finish the jobby...  I'm sliding, but the bike is trying to get up, then I see it, a stripe across the road, twenty feet wide of road colored gravel all the way across the road.
I'm humped...  with the bike still pretty sideways and sliding, the tyre hits a clear spot, and starts to slap, then hits gravel and goes down.  We part ways, the bike wedges right under the rail, I tumble.  Then I try to sit up, ends up I'm still sliding, I tumble some more, hitting my helmet on the ground.  when i'm pretty sure I've stopped, I wait a few seconds, then sit up, check to see if my limbs are still with me, then get up and check out the bike. 

What you did right

I wore my leathers.  This is a ride I normally do in fabric, but even at my fabric pace this likely woulda got my down. 
I never fixated, tried to ride it out, never jammed on the binders.

What you did wrong

Well, this is an interesting one.  I wasn't riding the PACE, or was I?  Before I lost it, I could have easily waved at passerby. 
Would I have still crashed had I not braked?  I would say definately!  And yet....  There's a very interesting article in Motorcyclist, I think this month by Kieth Code (may aliens take him wherever it is he thinks they are gonna) and he discusses how in his new video they flood the skidpad at Streets of Willow and drive through that at heavy lean, they do the same in pea gravel (been there) and his claim, if I understand him right, is that I may have got a little two wheel drift on but likely woulda regained traction and ridden it out had I not reacted at all.  The question becomes, 'How do I not react at all'?  I don't know the answer to that, but I'll be mindful of it in the future.

How could it have been avoided

Normally I stop at Nuke's on the way to school to say hallo to all and ask on road conditions.  It just so happens, one of my buddies was at Nuke's when I passed and headed down after me because he suspected I didn't know about the condition he'd seen earlier in the day after the big crash.  Stopping to ask those in the know about road conditions and police presence is always a good idea.  Not to mention they've got awesome Nachos!

Did I miss anything?  Any advise?

[r_ciao]

Brief summary of the crash:

Riding by myself in broad daylight on a VERY country road dotted with horse ranches with virtually no traffic.  Twisty roads, no speed limit posted.  Was riding about 20-25 mph when I ran off the road into aggregate rock and laid the bike down at about 10 mph.

What you did right:

Wore the right gear.  Had full gear on in 82 degree sunny weather.  The leather jacket is now broken in, but you cannot even see any scratches even though I landed on my left elbow.  Moto pants with knee armor; might have used it.  Sidi boots protected well when caught between rocks and my bike.  I don't even think my gloves hit the ground until I stopped.  Good to have frame sliders.  Otherwise damage to M696 could have been worse.

What you did wrong:

Brain fart.  Was enjoying beautiful scenery on unfamiliar scenic road.  The turn was a gentle left hander amongst similar curves.  I didn't think that I could negotiate turn at the slow speed I was going without laying it down so I stood the bike upright, applied the brakes, and figured that I would stop off the road.  The road had a small 6 inch shoulder that led into a level area with dry grass covered with aggregate rock that is about 1 inch square and is jagged.  Bike slid/fell down once I got off of the pavement. 

How could it have been avoided:

First thing that I should have done was pay attention to the road!  Second thing that could have prevented this fall would to have known if there was traffic behind me so that I could have just stopped on the road.  Need to pay attention.  Third option would be to trust the tires and take the turn.  Fourth, practice braking on dry grass/rocks?

What I learned: new cuss words.  Now I have to go cry and figure what I need to get my baby back up and running.

[ROBsS4R]

Glad your okay.

It all happens eventually to us.

[somegirl]

Brief summary of the crash:

Riding by myself in broad daylight on a VERY country road dotted with horse ranches with virtually no traffic.  Twisty roads, no speed limit posted.  Was riding about 20-25 mph when I ran off the road into aggregate rock and laid the bike down at about 10 mph.
<snip>

Glad to hear your gear protected you.   Sorry about your bike, good luck with the repairs.

[Jarvicious]

Well, this wasn't quite a crash, but rather a definite pucker moment

Situation - spirited group ride following a couple of rockets through some really great curves that I'd never been on before.  Thankfully the guy two bikes up was on a ZX-14 so he was crawling around in the curves until he hit the straightaways.  I remember we were going a bit slower than normal because I was getting kind of irked at the guy and would try and pass him coming out of corners, but he would just gun it and leave me only to catch up to him in the corner again.  Ok, I digress.

Midway through a medium sized sweeping curve there was a good sized pile (not patch, what the hell was it doing there?) of gravel that I just stared at after the guy in front of me pointed at it (I'm usually really good about ceasing target fixation.  I guess I really botched that one).  I hit it (right in the middle) and got a heavy duty case of the power wobbles.  I think the guy in front of me heard me hit it and turned around to check out what happened.  I just shook my head, gave him a nod, and we took off.

Things I did right:
- Though not through my own doing, keeping a decent pace on a little known road.
- I didn't panic, I kept the bike on a lean, and kept on the throttle.  It's amazing how easily the tiniest movement you make can upset the bike.

Things I did wrong:
- Target fixation.  Iirc I could have just stayed on my current line and it would have taken me just inside the patch and completely out of harms way
- Crept into the oncoming lane of traffic after hitting the gravel.  I don't think I could have swung this any other way due to the speed and the circumstances, it was just a case of luck combined with fairly deserted country roads. 

Overall I'm glad I didn't eat it, it was just one of those moments that shakes you up just enough to force you to respect your bike and the road that much more.  Definitely took a couple of days of easy riding to get back into the swing of things, but I hope to have enough of those types of injury/collision free moments through the tenure of my riding career to keep my (sometimes) cocky self in check.

[bdub]

Situation: 3:45ish leaving work headed down hill to the stop sign getting ready to turn left and head home (about 2 miles). While stopped at the bottom of the hill I scanned all the brake/reverse lights on the parked cars. Everybody pulls in to park and from FHE I know you can't see when backing out. Things were good so I left the stop sign and scanned the road to the next curve. A slow right hand sweep. Always have to check for tractors and wagons and general farm equipment and horse trailes, after checking the curve I brought my vision back to in front of me and there was an Infinity sitting in my lane turning left. She was looking to the right checking something (traffic) when applied the brakes (front only) and the front end tucked slid into her drivers door as I was rolling away.

Things I did right:  Helmet/gloves/boots

Things I did wrong: Didn't have on the leather pants that zip into my new AGV Sport Mirage suit.
May have fixated on the car but only had about ten feet to react
Brakeing skills may be lacking, although I've been told ten feet is to close to stop. I was doing maybe 10 mph

[Popeye the Sailor]

Situation: 3:45ish leaving work headed down hill to the stop sign getting ready to turn left and head home (about 2 miles). While stopped at the bottom of the hill I scanned all the brake/reverse lights on the parked cars. Everybody pulls in to park and from FHE I know you can't see when backing out. Things were good so I left the stop sign and scanned the road to the next curve. A slow right hand sweep. Always have to check for tractors and wagons and general farm equipment and horse trailes, after checking the curve I brought my vision back to in front of me and there was an Infinity sitting in my lane turning left. She was looking to the right checking something (traffic) when applied the brakes (front only) and the front end tucked slid into her drivers door as I was rolling away.

Things I did right:  Helmet/gloves/boots

Things I did wrong: Didn't have on the leather pants that zip into my new AGV Sport Mirage suit.
May have fixated on the car but only had about ten feet to react
Brakeing skills may be lacking, although I've been told ten feet is to close to stop. I was doing maybe 10 mph

Er....you may wish to add not looking where I was going to "what you did wrong".

[bdub]

Okay. Good point !