Crash Analysis: learning from our mistakes

[Speeddog]

This thread is devoted to analyzing our crashes.  No one wants to go boom, but it happens.  Let's try to learn from one another to prevent any future pavement surfing.  The intent here is to analyze, not criticize.

Here's a format for posting:

Brief summary of the crash

What you did right

What you did wrong

How could it have been avoided

[NuTTs]

Brief summary of the crash - What you should NOT do on a cold track day, writing off a S4Rs

What you did right - Used tyre warmers before each morning session especially as it was 0 degrees C in the morning.

What you did wrong - Didn´t use tyre warmers before the first free session and my tyres were worn but not worn out, I got a bit happy with the throttle on a fast uphill left hander with the consequence of being thrown off the bike and sliding many many yards along the asphalt whilst watching my beloved S4Rs flipping and bouncing and generally twisting itself into a "Streetfighter Special".

How could it have been avoided - Even though my tyres were cold I should have been gentle with the throttle and I probably would have had a wobble first couple of laps, then it would have been fine.

[the_Journeyman]

Brief summary of the crash
Riding with some friends on a pavement road with the pavement in good condition.  Warm fall day, tires were good and warm too.  Entered a left hander too hot, lowsided at around 95-100mph, bike slammed into a guardrail destroying it, I was luckier.  I was riding a GSXR 600 with the TRE mod.  As I hit the apex, at about full lean, I felt the rear start to slide, being about about 13,000RPM meant A LOT of power was going to the pavement so as I slid the rear spun up with a vengence.  I pretty much rode the bike to the pavement, never changing my inputs to the bars.  When my shoulder hit the pavement, I turn loose of the bike which saved me serious injury.

What you did right
Didn't freak when I realized I was going to go down.  Didn't try to change steering inputs, didn't apply brakes.  Turned bike loose once my shoulder hit the pavement

What you did wrong
Too much throttle, too fast for the road.  Could have saved it with better throttle control/form

How could it have been avoided
Slowing down, track days to understand how to control a sliding bike

JM

[tommys67]

Recap of my crash

I am riding sweep with 6 other guys from the NYMMC forum. We're about 20 miles into a planned 350 mile ride. We get into the first section of twistys in a woody state park, and I'm doing quite well. However, I get to one uphill left-hand turn and it doesn't feel right. As I am repositioning for the turn I realize I am going way too fast. I'm probably doing 40 - 45 - or maybe more... In trying to slow down I straighten up the bike, but realize I'm headed for gravel and a drop off on the side of the road. I end up locking the front wheel while on the gravel which drops the bike to its left, and I go over the bars. I may have actually bailed off the bike, but I just can't remember. I hit the ground with my left hand and helmet. Here's a pic of the aftermath to my stuff. I'm fine - not a scratch, but I mildly sprained my wrist and I overall feel like a pro football lineman on Monday morning.




Damage to the bike appears to be minimal. Broken headlamp, smashed left indicator, broken Dart flyscreen (which saved the instrument cluster from serious damage  wt: - but it was bent), bent bars, clutch filed down, scratched tank and rear cowl, bent shifter. The left side frame slider got nicely ground down, and I HOPE the frame and forks aren't bent. I am HOPEFUL that it's just jammed in gear because when I started it after the crash it made a miserable noise.    It was picked up by a local dealer from the crash site, and I should learn more this week. Also, the right side MIVV can was dented - and I'm bewildered by that... I'm actually happy about the indicator, because I have a full set of Rizoma LED Track indicators to install  wt: be::



What I did right:

1 - Wore full gear (dressed for the crash, not the ride). My new Helimot suit is soooo worth it. My helmet is already in the garbage. My Held gloves came through with flying colors. If I in fact DID bail, it saved me from falling downhill into rocks. I carried my AAA card, but learned a hard lesson - if you're in a state park, the towing company needs to have a special permit to come in and pick you up.

What I did wrong:

1 - I was riding at the very limits of my ability, and I got burned for it. I should have been going 10 - 15 mph slower throughout that stint.
2 - I didn't try to push through the turn, likely because I didn't...
3 - trust my abilities, my tires or the bike in general

How it could have been avoided:

Simple - going slower.

The irony:

I was using this ride as a warm up for the Lee Parks Total Control Advanced Riding Class on the 27th. Guess what I had to reschedule...  :bang

What I learned:

As much as I have advanced my skills as a motorcyclist, I'm still only in my second year of riding. I need to ride comfortably - and not push myself when it isn't necessary.

I really do need to take an advanced class like the ARC class or a track day because I need a controlled environment to learn the limits of my bike - not on public roads.

I also learned that walking through Grand Central Station in the middle of mid-town Manhattan is a wee bit embarrassing if you're wearing full leathers and carrying other gear  ;:|

I also learned that NYMMC is chock full of quality people. They waited with me for over an hour until the truck came to get me!

Let me know if you need any more details.

[b_lack]

So I'm new and just getting into riding...

Seems like a LOT of accidents where people take turns too quickly though, area result of the way people respond to having too much speed...ie not using the throttle correctly, applying too much brake, standing the bike up, locking a wheel...

It appears that in a lot of these situations, the correct move would have been to trust the bike a bit more and try to take the turn with the proper lean/positioning. Obviously, there's also knowing how to apply brake and everything properly beforehand in order to shave off some speed, but at some point, it seems like it would be pretty hard to actually cause the bike to lowside simply by having too much speed. Thoughts? I don't know much, so let me know if I'm way off base here.

[eobo]

Question - based on recent low side avoiding an SUV grill

The most typical moto accident statistically speaking in traffic:
Moto going straight, car opposite in an intersection turns left in front of moto. This almost happens so often I lost count. More since I got a new bike with stock pipes.

The other day someone cut across both lanes in front of me, I swerved + braked, lost front end, went down in front of the car about to crush me, they stopped.
Minor damages.
I get the feeling that if I had just hit the breaks I would have been embedded in their door; If I'd just swerved, I would have found another car or storefront to run into.

Any opinions?

[Howie]

Question - based on recent low side avoiding an SUV grill

The most typical moto accident statistically speaking in traffic:
Moto going straight, car opposite in an intersection turns left in front of moto. This almost happens so often I lost count. More since I got a new bike with stock pipes.

The other day someone cut across both lanes in front of me, I swerved + braked, lost front end, went down in front of the car about to crush me, they stopped.
Minor damages.
I get the feeling that if I had just hit the breaks I would have been embedded in their door; If I'd just swerved, I would have found another car or storefront to run into.

Any opinions?

Sicne I didn't wee the accident, no opinion.

How are you?
The bike?

[DoubleEagle]

Summary: I was road racing through the country on a 2 lane paved road . It was about 50 degrees and clear around 3 in the afternoon. 3rd time out this Spring. Had been running  someplaces in the triple digits on the short straights. After about an hour of racing ,me against the road, I turned on to this road that I hadn't ridden this direction since last Fall. (Really not very familar with the part of the road I crashed on) but came up out of a low area and crested a hill only to be right on top of a hard left hander . I normally take curves at twice the posted speed but I was distracted by a bike and 2 people beside the road for just a moment as I hit the crest of the hill. I went into the curve to deep ( to close to the center line of the curve ) and by the time I tried to countersteer out of the curve I hit the ditch and hillside at a 45 degree angle an as I tried to ride it out my bike was sucked into the water and mud in the ditch and I was pummmeled 4 times extremly hard so much so that I knew each time I felt a concussive hit I had a pretty good idea what damage my body had sustained. I came to rest on my back about 15 feet from my bike ,both of us in the ditch. I was able to push with my feet to get out of the ditch and get to my feet and hit the kill switch since the bike was still running on it's side. At that time I figured I had broken my shoulder and punctured my right lung. I was taken by Squad immobilized to a Fiberglass board and received no pain medication for over an hour  1/2 in the ER while I had X-rays and CT Scans and then had to find a Radiologist to read them. What I did was broke 4 ribs on my right side, did puncture my right lung, dislocated my right shoulder, sprained both knees and ankles, and did alot of soft tissue damage. There were no marks on my body anywhere-just all on the inside !              What I did Right: I had on a Shoei X-11 Helmet, Ducati Corse Leather Jacket, BMW Back Protector, Held Phantom Gloves, Dainese Mekong leather pants, AlpineStars SMX Plus Racing boots, Oakley Radar Pitch Sunglasses.Silk Helmet Liner.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            What I did Wrong: I did many things wrong. 1st I shouldn't have been riding so fast at least on a road that I wasn't real familar with and so soon in the season after only having been out 3 times  since last Fall before Turkey Day w/ a new Full Termi Exhaust which really adds alot of extra power and not riding likke that. Also I think the pavement was probably still to cold for real good adhesion. 3, I shouldn't have allowed myself to be distracted at racing speeds.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          How could it have been avoided: Probably the best way would have been to not ride so fast this early in the season on a road that I wasn't real familar with with the Termi Full Exhaust and wait until the pavement gets lots warmer so that I have maximum adhesion. ( of course what I was doing was not legal but it's my style of riding but generally on familar roads) I don't endorse it nor advocate it for anyone else but I'm sure I'm not alone .   ps. I've had 2 surgeries and I'm still not out of the woods yet.   I forgot to mention while I was in the Emergency room a  came in , interviewed me after I was on pain meds and gave me a  $90 FTC Ticket. Last ticket I got was in 1992. As of 5 /23 my medical bills are $67,000.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

[Desmostro]

Summary: I was road racing through the country on a 2 lane paved road .  After about an hour... road that I hadn't ridden ... Really not very familar with the part of the road ... and crested a hill only to be right on top of a hard left hander . I crashed ...

  What I did Right: I had on a Shoei X-11 Helmet...                                                                                                                                                                                         

I know this scene well unfortunately :
+ 13 other riders in 2007 in the same 100 feet of road in Marin. Exact road same elements. No "turn ahead" sign. We put up a sign.

These are BAD:
Tired, dehydrated, distracted, unfamiliar, blind hill/curve + speed = crash


Good luck man.

[CDawg]

The other day someone cut across both lanes in front of me, I swerved + braked, lost front end, went down in front of the car about to crush me, they stopped.
Any opinions?

Unfortunately, all cagers are out to get you.  I mean it.  I now cover the brake with my right hand and the horn with my left thumb in case cagers do not see me.

[He Man]

Unfortunately, all cagers are out to get you.  I mean it.  I now cover the brake with my right hand and the horn with my left thumb in case cagers do not see me.

I can tell you that having the Stebel horn has SAVED my life several times. Cars are ALWAYS out to get you, and with a quick blow of the horn, i always notice the drivers that are about to hit me jerk their car back into their lane. A loud bike isnt enough, you need something that can grab someones attention if they are falling asleep at the wheel.

[Desmostro]

I can tell you that having the Stebel horn has SAVED my life several times. Cars are ALWAYS out to get you, and with a quick blow of the horn, i always notice the drivers that are about to hit me jerk their car back into their lane. A loud bike isnt enough, you need something that can grab someones attention if they are falling asleep at the wheel.

+ 1

Stebel Horn? Any details on that? I see many different types on e-bay.
Which is defining, bone shaking loud please?

Otherwise thinking of mounting missiles.

[CDawg]

Stebel Horn? Any details on that? I see many different types on e-bay.

Depends on if you want to mount a relay.  If you do, then get the Nautilus (loudest on the market)--the dual tone sounds like a semi truck.  I didn't want to wire in a relay, so I got a single TM-80 Magnum--it sounds like a car horn.

Good cheap place: http://www.hornsplusauto.com/

 

[LYD]

Brief summary of the crash:
Making a pretty tight left hander, I hit some gravel and the rear tire starting coming out from under me.  I stood it back up and regained control, but I was going off the rode.  went down a ditch and hit a 12" culvert pipe head on.   Went over the bars, well actually my left leg was shattered by the handlebars (17 places) and landed on my back. the bike did a couple of cart wheels and landed on its wheels then fell over. Suprisingly no dent to the tank.

What you did right: I was wearing all the gear except leather pants. (boots, jacket, gloves, helmet, long pants/jeans).  Riding on the center to right side of the lane.

What you did wrong: Going a little to fast. Trying to get out of a lowside? (not really sure which would have been better)

How could it have been avoided: Slow down a little.  Lowside.

[NateDog]

I posted this in the "Mile High Monsters" section, but thought that it might be helpful here as well. Sorry that it's a little long...

Well, as the saying goes "There are two types of motorcyclists, those who have crashed and those who will". I've now joined the first group and experienced what a crash is like, and while it could have been much worse I certainly hope to avoid experiencing it again, at least in the near future.   

What Happened:

I met up with my uncle and a friend in Colorado Springs (I'm from Denver) on Saturday morning for a day of riding. The weather was perfect - sunny with a few scattered clouds, and we decided to head out towards Bishop's Castle as I had never been out there. We took 115 south to Florence where we got on 67 south towards Wetmore. I was taking it fairly easy since I hadn't done much real riding since last year (riding around town not counting). We hit a nice short section of twisties on 67, and I started to pick up the pace. I was feeling pretty good - got a knee down in a couple of spots and was seeing my lines. I had headphones in and was listening to some music. The twisties ended pretty quickly, and as the road transitioned to some nice sweeping curves I began thinking back about the run and what I could do to improve my technique.

Well, in my great brilliance I neglected to pay attention to the road. After all, it wasn't a technical section and I could afford to be inattentive, right?   I was in the middle, with my uncle following close behind me. As we approached a long, sweeping left-hand turn I started to drift wide, and it wasn't until I was 3/4 of the way through the turn that I realized that my current course would send me into the ditch on the side of the road. I leaned the bike over a little further, but happened to hit a patch of sand and felt the back end start to slip. Instead of trusting my bike, getting a knee down, and turning my head and looking through the turn (which would likely have allowed me to complete the turn without anything worse than a little wiggle at the rear tire) I immediately began searching for a place where I could go off the road with as little damage as possible.

There was a gravel road that terminated in a barbed wire fence (ouch!)  and just past it a sandy section about 4-feet wide that bordered the road for about 20 feet. I decided to aim for the sand.  I knew better than to make any sudden steering or power changes while on the sand, but I thought that if I could slow the bike down enough I might be able to ride it out and then steer it back onto the road. At this point I stood the bike up and got on both brakes, with the idea of scrubbing off as much speed as possible before hitting the sand. Immediately before I went off the road I released the brakes, downshifted, and got back on the throttle very slowly.

I had probably gotten my speed down to around 35-40mph when I went off the road and hit the sand, and at first I thought that my idea might work. The back end started slipping around a bit, but nothing that I couldn't handle. Then IT happened.   Contrary to appearance the sand was actually 6-8 inches deep, and wet. My back tire immediately sunk deeply into the sand, and then bucked up and to the right. I held on for all I was worth, hoping against hope to be able stabilize it once it came back down. The back tire slammed back into the ground and then bucked once again, this time to the left. The bike came up to almost a 60-degree angle, launching me up over the handlebars and into the road. I let go at the very last minute and found myself doing a very poor superman imitation. 

I very distinctly remember four things going through my mind as I was flying through space: First I thought, “Hmm, my music is still playing. I can’t believe that I am listening to this right now (I was listening to the soundtrack from Casino Royale, and the track where Bond wrecks the Aston Martin had just come on  )”. Second, “You know, this would be kind of fun if it wasn’t for the impact I know is coming.” Third, “Impact? O, shoot, I’d better prepare myself!” Fourth, a brief prayer, “O, Lord, please don’t let this hurt too bad – and please let my bike be ok!”

I was already twisting as I flew through the air, and I did my best to tuck in my arms and head and prepare to roll once I hit the ground. I landed hard on my right hip, immediately tumbling onto my back and then my left side - wrenching my left shoulder, as I had been unable to get my left arm down in time. I came to a stop on my back, with my head and body from the waist-up in the road, my legs in the ditch. I did a quick assessment to make sure that I was actually stopped and that I could feel all my extremities, then rolled out of the road and looked back at my bike.

The bike had fallen on its right side about 20-feet from where I had stopped rolling. The right side of the handlebar had buried itself in the sand causing the throttle to stick wide open. This caused the bike to pivot around on the handlebar until the bike was facing the road - with the rear tire doing its best to propel the now horizontal bike back onto the road it had so recently left through contact with thin air alone. I slowly got to my feet and made my way back to the bike, hitting the kill switch and then turning the key off.

By this point my uncle and friend had circled back, parked their bikes, and assisted me in getting my beloved Ducati across the road to a flat spot where we could assess the damage. Other than the bent handlebar, a scratched bar-end mirror, and a bent rear brake lever the only damage was to my low-mount Termi exhaust. When the bike fell over it bent the right pipe in towards the rear wheel, splitting the seam at the base of the pipe where it attaches to the header. I plan to take the bike in to a shop that my uncle recommended and see if he can bend the exhaust back out and then weld a bead across the split. My frame-sliders performed admirably with no damage to the tank or the frame. 

For myself, I ended up with some broken blood vessels and a golf-ball-sized bruise on my right hip from the impact, and a sore left shoulder from overextension when I was tumbling. Gratefully I was wearing the proper gear: a black Alpinestars GP-Plus jacket (with a Dainese Wave G Back Protector insert), zipped to a pair of black Alpinestars track pants, Alpinestars SMX Plus boots, a Shoe X-11 helmet, and a pair of Held Steve gloves. The pants and jacket both are pretty scraped up but are definitely still serviceable. The helmet never contacted the ground – both based on my memory and a detailed visual inspection, so I plan to continue using it. I am certain that if I had not been wearing the proper gear I would be laying in a hospital bed having gravel scrubbed out of my flesh and very possibly had broken bones as well right now. Instead I am sitting in a coffee shop two days later with nothing more than a slightly stiff shoulder and a bruise on my hip that I only remember I have whenever I bump it. 

Lessons Learned:

-   Always wear proper gear. Up till now I have typically worn all my gear when I ride around town with the exception of the pants – I typically have worn jeans. This incident has motivated me to research protective pants that I can wear over my jeans/slacks when running errands.
-   Never lose focus. Even “easy” roads can quickly become dangerous if you are not paying attention.
-   Always look through your turn. I failed to do this and instead was contemplating the side of the road, which is precisely where I went. Your body naturally follows your eyes, so look where you want to go and never become fixated on distracting elements around you.
-   If, God forbid, I ever find myself ¾ the way through a turn and I have drifted wide, it is far better to lean the bike over hard and attempt to save the turn. The worst that could happen is that the back tire slides out and I low-side, as opposed to playing superman and being launched through the air.

Ride safe, and I hope to see you guys (and gals!) on the road! 

NateDog