Crash Analysis: learning from our mistakes

[EvilSteve]

This post could go in "I saved it!" and this thread, it's here because I went down.

Country road, blind left hand corner, dump truck in middle of the road. I had about 4 / 5 ft either side of the truck and I went right. Missed the truck (yay!) was *very* close to the edge of the road (broken asphalt & grassy ditch) and target fixated on the edge. Got it down to about 10 mph before I lost the front. It was a 30 zone, I was probably doing 35 to 40 (not exactly sure) and I was riding on the far right of the road anyway because it's a country lane. If I'd been in my car, even doing the speed limit, it would have been a head on because there was no room for a car to avoid that truck.

I'm ok, sore shoulder, sore neck & a bit of rash through my leathers on the left elbow - always wear gear!

Bike has seen better days, not many though because it's (was) make the beast with two backsing new. Left front turn signal is off. Most of the damage went to the engine case on the left side. A few scratches on the body work, nothing major. The shifter was pretty bent but I bent it back most of the way. Worst thing is that I think I clipped the tank with my boot on the way off the bike so there's a gouge all the way down to the metal on the right side and the bike never touched down on that side.

Didn't get the license plate, didn't chase them - that only goes down the wrong path - no, of course they didn't stop, don't ask. I have parts that I need to buy because I'm riding up to Americade on Thursday with friends. I have other things I'd like to buy and I'm probably going to have to get the tank painted.

I think it was a failure of imagination on my part in that I wasn't expecting a truck that big to be coming around that corner as fast as it was and in the middle of the road. I think I could have saved the bike but I target fixated on the edge of the road rather than looking where I wanted to go. The truck put me in emergency mode whereas other times that I've had people in my lane or swerve to hit me, I just avoid them and it's not an emergency so I react more thoughtfully, i.e. don't fixate or at least have the presence of mind to stop fixating if I do. This was more a life or death situation, if I didn't avoid that truck, there was a good chance I'd be dead.

Got to the dropzone (I was going there for a skydiving course) to find that my helmet, altimeter and audible altimeter (it beeps to tell you certain altitudes that you set) had been stolen.

What I did right:
Gear
Didn't hit the truck
Swore very loudly & with vigor
Didn't chase the truck in my enraged state
Riding in the far right of the road in preparation for someone on the corner

What I did wrong:
Failure of imagination - didn't prepare for that possibility
Target fixated on the edge of the road
Going a bit fast for the scenario that I hadn't considered
Didn't get the license plate of the truck (not that reporting them would actually do any good)

If you have the choice between hitting an oncoming vehicle and hitting the scenery, hit the scenery. Your closing speed on another oncoming vehicle is their speed plus yours, your closing speed with the stationary scenery is your speed only. It's all about speed differential, the lowest impact speed (if you can't get it stopped in time or avoid obviously) should be the aim.

[somegirl]

Sorry to hear about the crash.   Glad you are relatively ok, thank god for gear.   
I hope it won't take too much to get your bike fixed up.

What I did right:
Gear
Didn't hit the truck
Swore very loudly & with vigor
Didn't chase the truck in my enraged state
Riding in the far right of the road in preparation for someone on the corner

 

[EvilSteve]

Thanks. To get the bike roadworthy again, all I really need is the front left turn signal. To get it looking like it was is going to require a lot more than that. Given that it's so new, I really don't want to be riding around for years with rashed up plastics (it's an '09 Daytona) so I'll have to figure out what's required there.

[Howie]

A dump truck straddling the center line certainly limits your options.  Glad you came out of it OK.  It should have been the thief who crashed, not you.

[EvilSteve]

Thanks Howie.

There is no centerline, it was a narrow enough road that no one in a car could have got by this truck in a straight line without a lot of slowing down & moving over, let alone going fast around a blind corner in the middle of the road.

If anyone knows someone in the Accord area of NY who owns a burgundy dump truck, kick them in the nuts for me please.

[Raux]

posted on a separate thread but ducpainter said good idea to put it here.

Well a decreasing radius blind corner in the middle of the woods with a guard rail protecting a 50ft drop got me.

Here's the basic story, i'll edit the post http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=27302.msg475703#msg475703 as i upload pictures.

Going down a new road at a decent pace. sign shows curves ahead... ok so i slow preparing for said curves.. take a few.. all nice, smooth nothing fancy. road is narrow two lane with ZERO room for error. guard rails are 12 inches off the road with no runoff road only wet dirt/leaves between the edge and the rail.

Anyway, come up to a blind left with a nice radius, little down hill, lean into and then as my eyes follow notice the decreasing radius and my increasing push to the outside. i trail brake with the throttle on, lean more lean more lean more... then i make the mistake of looking at the front wheel going toward the leaves... target fixation... i stay with it though still leaning as hard as i can... i was at the end of the corner but needed 6 inches too much. front goes into the leaves i go down, 5 feet i hit one rail support, 10 more feet nail the second support. i roll in the road for 5 more.

stand up and go back to the corner quick to slow the car behind me. he stops puts out a triangle and a moto guzzi rider stops (nice bike... took at picture of that too!). i assess my bike. pick it up (which was quite easy with the adrenaline) and move it off the road. Had to practically pick up and drag the front though.

Start checking the bike. Front rim shattered. two of the three spokes are broke off, the rim is cut in half. both front brakes are bent with about 3 bolts each missing. lower triple is at a wierd angle and the top triple is in 3 pieces. the light is smashed front and back and the aluminum is split in a couple of places. one mirror is gone... i mean gone, probably down the hill where i would have been without the rail. the other hanging. handlebar bent. left peg is cut in half, left rearset bent in. shifter bent. kickstand bent. passenger peg bent. slight scratches on seat cover, left exhaust can scratched, wierd dent in front exhaust pipe near the head. don't know about the main frame since there was a bit of paint off a weld at the head tube. could be bent.

good things. no tank damage, no engine damage or scratches, in fact bike was still running. pazzos good to go. ADAC if you are in germany get it. roadside assistance is awesome.

and me... bruised right foot, sore left shoulder (more previous injury i'm sure). my right boot almost got ripped off so i'm assuming whatever did that is what bruised it. all x-rays are neg for breaks. back protector saved some serious kidney damage cause it hit hard. leathers are scratched and ripped. i have one strawberry on the right knee where something tried to rip the leathers off, but i think more from the lining than anything getting through. i was leaned so far over that when i hit down, i touched elbow,forearm first so i didn't fall hard at all on the left side. but my right leg must have hit between the rail and bike or something.

lessons learned... be in a good mood before riding. know the road. i made a bad line choice... it was fine for a constant radius turn, but it sucked for allowing any correction for the decreasing radius. turn late, turn fast. i was in a slow, turning early line. DO NOT target fixate. SOOO glad i had all my equipment on. i would be seriously hurt without it.

[Buckethead]

Holy road-rash, Batman! 

Glad you're mostly okay! That sounds like a hell of a wreck.

[JasonV]

New rider, inexperience type crash.  1 August, on ramp/entrance to Palisades Pkwy, exit 11 by New Hempstead.  It's one of those long, large radii of a curve to get on.  Started out wide on the outside to not cut my corner down.  Was going about 20-25 I suppose. Towards the end just before I'd get to the shoulder to enter traffic, I started to come out wide and knew I had to get more lean in and get to the right but just couldn't do it.  I guess at this point I panicked and was looking wear I was about to go as opposed to looking where I wanted to turn and lean and where I should be going.  Wound up hitting the curb where the grass ends for the Pkwy to meet the entrance shoulder and got thrown into traffic.  Jeep just avoided me, some knee rash and broken thumb.

Didn't do much right as I should've been leaning more and looking harder to the right.  Probably what I did do right was the way I went down and got into survival mode once I went down.  I train jiu jitsu and I'm used to being thrown and hitting the ground with force so my body didn't go into shock.  Got into a position and stayed still not to get hit.

After thinking back on it many times, I know I gotta get more lean in those types of turns and keep looking past the apex. 

Time to get back on and learn from this, which I definitely did/

[somegirl]

New rider, inexperience type crash.  1 August, on ramp/entrance to Palisades Pkwy, exit 11 by New Hempstead.  It's one of those long, large radii of a curve to get on.  Started out wide on the outside to not cut my corner down.  Was going about 20-25 I suppose. Towards the end just before I'd get to the shoulder to enter traffic, I started to come out wide and knew I had to get more lean in and get to the right but just couldn't do it.  I guess at this point I panicked and was looking wear I was about to go as opposed to looking where I wanted to turn and lean and where I should be going.  Wound up hitting the curb where the grass ends for the Pkwy to meet the entrance shoulder and got thrown into traffic.  Jeep just avoided me, some knee rash and broken thumb.

Sorry to hear about your crash, hope you heal up quickly.

Was it a decreasing radius turn? (turn tightens up as you go through it?)

[JasonV]

Sorry to hear about your crash, hope you heal up quickly.

Was it a decreasing radius turn? (turn tightens up as you go through it?)

Thanks.   Thumb is healing, at least another two weeks in splint.  Knee still sore (had jeans on, not my Dakar pants, stupid). 

Yes it was but not one of those that sharply tighten up.  Even with my inexperience with these turns, I still shouldn't have gotten myself into this predicament.  Live and learn...

[He Man]

Its about 12:10am, and my head hurts a bit.

How it happened.

I went on a ride with Evil Steve, Cdawg, and Bones. I've been riding pretty hard this season (and probably not smart with my lane selection, or my choice to barrel down roads I've never been on) and Evil Steve made some notes that probably saved me from a lot of pain today.

We took 590 out near Bohemia PA. The road was sketchy. I dont think any of the guys knew the road at all. But we got through it pretty okay. I decided to ride behind Cdawg and just keep it calm. The road had some blind corners and the road itself was a bit sketchy. I couldnt put a finger on it.... Regardlss, we all pull over and we had a  20min discussion on proper lines for a safe and smooth ride, as well as keeping a safe distance, with Guest Speaker Evil Steve (whose name isnt even Steve btw lol). I asked To ride behind Evil Steve so i can follow his line.

About 5 mins into taking off, We hit a gentle series of twists with some straights. Evil Steve had his spidy sense on and was going very very conservatively. We were taking the turns at the posted speeds. At one particular straight, Evil Steve sticks his foot out and points down very vigoursly @ about 30mph. I see him and i bleed of some speed anticipating a pot hole or a dead rodent. Around 20mph (give or take), I suddenly loose the front end.

For some reason, PA thinks its smart to put those grooves in the roads that are suppose to wake you up on the highway, in the double yellow. Not only are they there, but they are massive. About a 7 inch long groove.

After losing the front, it gets caught in the grooves and my bike begins to tank slap a bit. From here on, im not quite sure what happened.

I was thrown off the bike and landed on my shoulder, then bounced my head and tumbled once or twice, then skidded  into a ditch. Bones was behind me, Evil Steve was in front. Both said the bike fixed it self up and rode into the storm drain like area and skidded across the dirt wall.

What I did right
I was wearing every piece of gear. Including my Carbon Fiber Nut Guard, which worked i guess since my family jewels are still okay.
I was riding slow (though this was more in part of Evil Steve being aware, not me)


What I did wrong
I was not attentive enough to notice the hundreds of gravel spots.
I was a bit close to the person ahead, if I had more distance i might of been able to react differently.


Lesson Learned?
Unless you've taken the road earlier in the day. Never consider it safe.

Damage:
Helmet is toast
My Koba Misano suit is partially damaged. the shoulder and below worked GREAT. Super thick leather in that area. The upper left theigh isnt. I havent taken a really close look at it yet, but the leather either riped, or the stitching gave out.
Dianese gloves worked great and saved my palm. Leather held up very nicely and the glove is still usable for city riding.
Bike has a hole in the left alternator case.

other wise minus a few scratches the bike never got laided out. Overall this was one of my better crashes.
 be safe out there guys.

[JasonV]

He Man, glad to hear you are ok. 

[EvilSteve]

From my perspective (looking in the mirrors), I saw the rear of the bike kick out to He Man's right and throw him off. The bike had a bit of a lean to the left as it straightened itself and so headed off to the left side of the road hitting the embankment. There was a rock embedded in the wall that put the hole in his case. The impact angle with the wall was very acute which resulted in a very soft impact (in addition to the slow speed we were doing). It was just bad luck that it happened to get the hole.

If I were to guess, I would say there was some input that He Man used that caused his bike to lose traction because it wasn't so slippery to throw me off but who knows.

The "repairs" that were made to that road are bordering on criminal IMO. It's shocking that the state considers this a viable solution to pot holes or subsidence under the road. 

Have to give massive props to the locals that helped us get He Man's bike up & running. I know they don't read this forum but have to say thanks anyway.

I'm glad he had his gear on & I'm glad we were taking it very easy because it could have been a lot worse.

[CDawg]

Traction in gravel is not terrible if one remains steady and does not chop the throttle.  Leading the way home, I also went through the same gravel bit at a good pace.  Both the front and rear did shimmy and lost traction, but the bike corrected itself.  I'm not a racer (big pucker moment re: the gravel), but everything I've read suggest gravel is similar to sliding during a turn in MotoGP racing and those guys are able to control their bikes consistently.

[Bones]

The problem was He Man was in a turn and hit the gravel patch. I don't know if he hit gravel and then slid into one of those rumble strip things or if the gravel was in the rumble strip thing, but he caught it either way in a turn, which is why his front end slid out under him. Luckily there were no oncoming cars.

That piece of road was a mess, one gravel patch after another.