ABS and MotorCycles, The Jury is still out?

[Triple J]

I've never ridden an ABS bike, but it seems like a good idea. If it works well on a SBK under track conditions, as mentioned in an earlier post about Honda, then I can't see a downside. I guess added weight could be an issue on a Ducati style bike (as opposed to a Goldwing)...but I'm guessing the added system is pretty light.

[somegirl]

No ABS vs ABS:

[CairnsDuc]

The main things that people kept coming up with was:
1. Lack of feel from the braking system (not good for track bikes)
2. loss of control of the braking system
3. added complexity of repair or maintenance
4. added weight
5. expense at time of purchase
6. They don't really work on bikes anyway

I argued the points like this:
1. So, you may lose a little feel, (Although the guys I spoke to who have ABS equipped bikes have said the brakes on there bikes still felt the same as there non equipped bikes) but I suspect a little loss of feel is a small price to pay when weighed up against the benefit of more control on that damp road when that mindless moron pulls out in front of you. Track bikes should not enter into the discussion, most track bikes I know are not road legal anyway (No lights or mirrors, slick tyres, open exhausts)
In our Monsoon season, I would love to have a monster with ABS, I'll take any help I can get on wet roads and suicidal drivers, talent, practice and safe riding can only help so much.

2. I didn't understand that claim, you still control it, it's only when the wheel locks that the system steps in to unlock a locked wheel, but you still control how much braking power to apply and when.

3. Bosch have claimed that there ABS system requires no maintenance, it's a sealed for life component, I have asked a couple of BMW owners who own older bikes with ABS, they have had no added expense or drama's because of ABS. Modern ABS systems are very reliable and if they fail, your brakes still work, it just means the wheel will lock if you run out of talent.

4. 5 or 10kg's of extra weight for the added safety? miss a couple of lunch's for pity's sake!

5. OK some are expensive, but most ABS options/upgrade are getting quite reasonable, it amazes me when people won't think twice about $2k or so for some wheels or an exhaust system, but $500 to $1000 for a very usable piece of safety equipment, and that is over the top expensive?!?!

6. What a load of horseshit! the above video proves that point.

I can understand people with track bikes not wanting ABS, but how hard would it be to remove it? or stick with bikes that never had it anyway? most track bikes people modify to take racing anyway, so remove or disable the ABS system and your ready to go racing.

I'm not saying it should be standard, but at least make it an option and available for more models than it currently is now.

[08S4Rs]

My dad has a Harley and a BMW that both have ABS brakes and i have ridden both,you can never even feel them when you stop. Along with that i have ridden along side my dad where we are hauling ass and a light goes yellow and where he can hit the bakes and stop clear of the intersection i have to judge if i can stop short enough or if i have to punch through the light either situation is not a good one and not something i enjoy doing. If my S4rs came with the ABS option i would have gotten it in a heartbeat with out consideration of the cost.

[wbeck257]

That video is kind of bullshit.

Yeah, jam on your brakes as hard as you can and you'll do the same thing. He intentionally locked the wheels for the demo.
However, you can do proper panic brakeing (aka knowing how to ride a motorcycle, right.) and you can still panic stop in the wet.

Spend the $500 - $1000 on training and you'll be a better rider all around, not just in stopping.

[swampduc]

That video is kind of bullshit.

Yeah, jam on your brakes as hard as you can and you'll do the same thing. He intentionally locked the wheels for the demo.
However, you can do proper panic brakeing (aka knowing how to ride a motorcycle, right.) and you can still panic stop in the wet.

Spend the $500 - $1000 on training and you'll be a better rider all around, not just in stopping.

Sure, but how many people are that good? How many will get that good, even with extra training and practice, that they could outbrake a computer in the wet?

I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy when my ass is on the line. I'd much rather have the OPTION to have extra safety equipment.

[Greg]

I've locked up my front wheel before on an sv650, and 3 broken metacarpals later, I'd like to have at least the option of ABS.

But you DO have the option, as the SV650 has optional ABS

http://www.suzukicycles.com/Products/SV650AK8

It looks like the option adds $600 to the sticker price, but as others have pointed out if it saves you then it will repay the $600 on the first avoided accident.

[wbeck257]

Sure, but how many people are that good? How many will get that good, even with extra training and practice, that they could outbrake a computer in the wet?

I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy when my ass is on the line. I'd much rather have the OPTION to have extra safety equipment.

I'm not saying you can outbrake ABS -- you probably can't. But you can still get the job done.

A shitty rider with ABS is still a shitty rider.
Useing a computer as a crutch on a motorcycle will only save your ass so many times...

Actually knowing what you are doing you'll probably last a little bit longer.

[ptooey]

Have never tried ABS on a bike, and not sure if ABS options on all bikes work the same way, but I think this vid gives a good idea of the usefulness of ABS-- Honda's CBR1000RR ABS, which electronically activates braking on both front and rear:



Technical deets:

[Bill in OKC]

Don't like it, don't want it.  As long as the manufacturer gives an option - like Kawasaki C14 or ?BMW? used to - pay extra if you want it - no problems.  If it gets shoved down our throats - then it will be just one more thing that will have to get removed/replaced.

[duccarlos]

I locked my front once, but thankfully learned enough from the MSF to let go. I can see the advantage, specially for new riders or someone upgrading to more toucjy brakes, of ABS. For example, I know someone that upgraded from an S2R 1000 to a Hypermotard that had a bad accident when he locked the brakes. I think some here can testify that the HM brakes are touchy. That said, I would not mind being able to shut it off for the track and on for day to day riding.

[somegirl]

If it were available as an option on my bike, I would get it.  Most of the time I would not need it.  However, for that one time a deer jumps in front of me while I am riding around on wet mountain roads with fallen leaves, it would be totally worth it.

Sure, you can panic stop a non-ABS bike without locking up the wheels.  But can you stop in as short a distance as the ABS bike?  On wet, slippery roads?   I think there are very few riders that can say that.

[superjohn]

Don't like it, don't want it.  As long as the manufacturer gives an option - like Kawasaki C14 or ?BMW? used to - pay extra if you want it - no problems.  If it gets shoved down our throats - then it will be just one more thing that will have to get removed/replaced.

Do you have the same opinion of traction control, like on the 1198R ?

[Triple J]

Have never tried ABS on a bike, and not sure if ABS options on all bikes work the same way, but I think this vid gives a good idea of the usefulness of ABS-- Honda's CBR1000RR ABS, which electronically activates braking on both front and rear:

That's a good video. I can't see how this is anything but good for the average street/track bike. The system appears to be unobtrusive, and allows for maximum front/rear braking efficiency in all conditions...dry, wet, sand, etc. Sign me up...I already thought the 2008 CBR1000RR was pretty bad ass. Seems to be better for '09.

I will say I don't think this ABS system has a place in the upper levels of racing (WSBK, MotoGP, British SBK, etc). It seems OK for club level racing, since they're not pros. Similar to traction control, it lowers the skill and finesse needed to be fast. 

[silentbob]

First, there are different types of ABS.  The ABS on older BMWs is terrible in terms of feel.  It is a powered system with no feedback.  They may have changed this in recent years but I have not ridden any of the latest models with ABS.  The ABS system on the Ducati ST works much differently.  It simply bleeds off pressure when you reach the point of lock.  It has much better feel and would be my choice if I wanted ABS.

Second, the last time I saw magazine tests of ABS equipped bikes showed that the bikes could be stopped faster WITHOUT ABS that with ABS. 

Third, ABS and traction control will not allow you to ride in slippery conditions without knowing how to properly handle a motorcycle.  You can and will crash in a turn while braking or accelerating.  The ABS and traction control systems may limit the amount of power or braking but will not help you manage the balance of that power with cornering forces.  They assume that 100% of the available traction is theirs.  So if you grab the brakes on an ABS equipped bike on slippery leaves while in a turn, you will go down just as quickly as you would on a non-ABS equipped bike (possibly faster because you are lulled into a false sense of security by your ABS and don't try to properly modulate your brakes).

Fourth, in the dirt you WANT to be able to lock up the wheels so ABS is a disadvantage in those circumstances.

ABS may save you in the right conditions or it may lead you to crash with its false sense of security and poor road feel.  Either way money spent on learning how to ride properly will out weigh money spent on ABS any day.