Thwarting the DPT...One Block at a Time

[desmoquattro]

Now the wheel curbing deal I don't get...I've heard that DPT is cracking down, and this isn't the first time I've heard about someone getting a ticket for failure to curb their tires on "flat" ground.  I've been doing a little research but can't find anything.  I'm going to guess that there's a minimum slope percentage that makes the curbing thing kick in.  It's probably very low and looks "flat" to most of us. 

That's the arbitrary and capricious part (well, one of them). Chris did some research, and the CA vehicle code apparently requires wheel curbing if the road has more than a 3% grade. The block in question for his citation is absolutely flat. And several other vehicles that day had the same ticket on that block.

And there certainly is a gray area. What if someone pulls up in front of a business, parks, has no change, runs in to get change, and comes out to a meter maid issuing a citation? Sure, the letter of the law is one thing, but any lawyer will tell you that there are gray areas. And lately it seems like the DPT is exploiting those gray areas more than usual. Then there are the times that they're just plain wrong. Like the time a city crew painted a bus stop around my bike (which was in a motorcycle parking area) and they came along and cited me for parking in a bus stop.

The upside is that the DPT makes a LOT of mistakes on citations...especially when they write them by hand. That gives you grounds to challenge them. But it takes your time, and often it takes your money (if you lose, or is you use ticket assassin).

[mostrobelle]

That's the arbitrary and capricious part (well, one of them). Chris did some research, and the CA vehicle code apparently requires wheel curbing if the road has more than a 3% grade. The block in question for his citation is absolutely flat. And several other vehicles that day had the same ticket on that block.

3% is a 3" rise in just over 8'-0" of horizontal travel.  That "looks" pretty damn flat, but it ain't.  Anything over 5% starts to make getting around in a wheelchair difficult...and you and I barely notice that when we're walking on it.  3% does seem a bit "flat" to have to curb your wheels, but at least it's not arbitrary.   3% is a solid number that you can sink your teeth into. 

[johnc]

But to my mind, there's a clear difference between creating incentives for good behavior and bilking people to alleviate a structural budget crisis...especially when the people you're bilking tend to be low-income or middle-income people who do nothing more heinous than wake up a little late...or fail to curb their wheels on a flat block. Policy is one thing, but arbitrary and capricious enforcement of that policy is unacceptable. And it's fun to stick it to 'em sometimes

+ eleventy billion!!!!!   anarchy, anarchy, anarchy!!!!!

[Spidey]

3% is a 3" rise in just over 8'-0" of horizontal travel.  That "looks" pretty damn flat, but it ain't.  Anything over 5% starts to make getting around in a wheelchair difficult...and you and I barely notice that when we're walking on it.  3% does seem a bit "flat" to have to curb your wheels, but at least it's not arbitrary.   3% is a solid number that you can sink your teeth into. 

You can get grade maps for each street from DPT, which is now under the umbrella of MTA.  And that's all I'll say on that matter.   

I got a 3% ticket for not curbing my wheels the two weeks ago.  But my hill is like a billion % grade.  And I'd actually curbed them--as I always do), but the van was so close to the curb that when I let go of the steering wheel, they straightened right up.  Damn power steering.  Grrrrr. . . $45 wasted. 

[Spidey]

Then there are the times that they're just plain wrong. Like the time a city crew painted a bus stop around my bike (which was in a motorcycle parking area) and they came along and cited me for parking in a bus stop.

That is plain wrong.  But remember that you're dealing with a giant bureaucracy.  The people that do the paint aren't the people who ticket.  They likely (read:  almost certainly) failed to communicate with one another about when the paint was going in.  Also remember that the City employees you come into contact with on a daily basis aren't the decision makers.  They're generally the low men on the totem pole.  So they're gonna make mistakes.  Lots n' lots n' lots of 'em.

[Spidey]

But to my mind, there's a clear difference between creating incentives for good behavior and bilking people to alleviate a structural budget crisis...especially when the people you're bilking tend to be low-income or middle-income people who do nothing more heinous than wake up a little late...or fail to curb their wheels on a flat block. Policy is one thing, but arbitrary and capricious enforcement of that policy is unacceptable. And it's fun to stick it to 'em sometimes

I agree with you in theory.  But frankly, if you have enough $ to own a car in SF, I'm having trouble finding the requisite sympathy.  I'm more concerned about those who can't pay rent or afford food.  But you're right that it seems mean.

Here's the other thing.  It's rare that the City makes focused policy decisions like what you're suggesting--i.e. let's increase traffic enforcement to make more $.  Here's what's likely goin' on.  Because of the budget crisis, individual departments' budgets are being cut.  The departments can fire people or find ways to increase revenue.  But the cuts are different for each department, so each department struggles with a solution.  As a result, you have people who normally aren't high-level policy makers struggling to find ways to increase revenue.  Increased ticketing enforcement is an easy place to increase revenue.  And what likely happens is that the low-on-the-totem pole guys are just told to increase enforcement.  They end up making the decision about how to do that.  The result is what looks like a City policy is likely little more than a general order that leaves the discretion as to how it's implemented to the low-on-the-totem pole guy.   And often, that's the last guy you want making policy.

That's a long way of saying that a budget crisis (particularly one where there are emergency cuts like we've been having) doesn't always lead to well-thought policy or implementation of that policy.   

[DarkStaR]

[johnc]

warren ... as for the city not increasing ticking to raise revenue ... perhaps you are correct (though i REALLY doubt it). 

i know for a fact that three other bay area cities have given direct orders to police officers to increase their ticket numbers in order to raise funds through fines, to help raise revenue.  i know this from friends who are police officers in these cities. 

for the most part, the police officers don't like this directive ... but i am sure that the parking meter maids LOVE this.

[desmoquattro]

That is plain wrong.  But remember that you're dealing with a giant bureaucracy.  The people that do the paint aren't the people who ticket.  They likely (read:  almost certainly) failed to communicate with one another about when the paint was going in.  Also remember that the City employees you come into contact with on a daily basis aren't the decision makers.  They're generally the low men on the totem pole.  So they're gonna make mistakes.  Lots n' lots n' lots of 'em.

That's exactly what happened in the bus stop case. No signage about painting a bus stop, etc. The hearing officer saw my pictures and asked to keep them because, in her words, this was "the stupidest citation I've (sic) ever seen." She kept my photos to have an example of a textbook case of what NOT to do

But frankly, if you have enough $ to own a car in SF, I'm having trouble finding the requisite sympathy.  I'm more concerned about those who can't pay rent or afford food.  But you're right that it seems mean. 

That really depends on the neighborhood. Most of the relatively poor people around my part of The Mission do have cars...not because they can afford them, but mostly because they can't afford not to have them. A lot of 'em make their living with their cars, and many of them work in places (e.g. Bayview, SOMA, etc) that really aren't accessible by transit. Wait a sec, we're talking about MUNI here...NO neighborhood is accessible by MUNI

[Spidey]

warren ... as for the city not increasing ticking to raise revenue ... perhaps you are correct (though i REALLY doubt it). 

That's not quite what I was saying.  I'm sure that they've gotten instructions to increase ticketing.  *How* that  increased enforcement occurs is likely left up to people who don't ususally make policy decisions, and maybe even up to individual DPT enforcers.  Thus, you see stuff like what Joe was talking about.  I seriously doubt one of the higher-ups said "let's start really getting people with the curbed wheels statute."  More likely, the directive came down from on-high to just to increase revenue, leaving the implementation up to others. 

That really depends on the neighborhood. Most of the relatively poor people around my part of The Mission do have cars...not because they can afford them, but mostly because they can't afford not to have them. A lot of 'em make their living with their cars, and many of them work in places (e.g. Bayview, SOMA, etc) that really aren't accessible by transit. Wait a sec, we're talking about MUNI here...NO neighborhood is accessible by MUNI

Hogwash.  I know that neighborhood.  No "relatively poor" person needs a $30-40K car, which describes an inordinate number of vehicles around.  I'm amazed at the parking lot in the public housing Valencia Gardens.  Now, when DPT start ticketing every $2k beat-to-shit 1991 Toytota Corolla in Bayview, I'm gonna feel some empathy.  Otherwise, that's the cost of having a car in the City.  Too bad, so sad. 

That said, if they start ticketing consistently sidewalk parking for motorcycles I'm gonna break my foot off in someone's ass.   

[desmoquattro]

Hogwash.  I know that neighborhood.  No "relatively poor" person needs a $30-40K car, which describes an inordinate number of vehicles around.  I'm amazed at the parking lot in the public housing Valencia Gardens.  Now, when DPT start ticketing every $2k beat-to-shit 1991 Toytota Corolla in Bayview, I'm gonna feel some empathy.  Otherwise, that's the cost of having a car in the City.  Too bad, so sad. 

That said, if they start ticketing consistently sidewalk parking for motorcycles I'm gonna break my foot off in someone's ass.   

I call hogwash on your hogwash Take a stroll down 15th Street sometime. These aren't the Valencia Garden dwellers with $5000 worth of spinner rims on their SUVs. These are the beat-to-shit used cars, often bought from the used car dealers in the area, for a couple grand. The nice cars tend to be in garages around here.

[Popeye the Sailor]

And there certainly is a gray area. What if someone pulls up in front of a business, parks, has no change, runs in to get change, and comes out to a meter maid issuing a citation? Sure, the letter of the law is one thing, but any lawyer will tell you that there are gray areas.

I feel no pity.

It's not some sort of surprise that somehow you drove into the gawdamn city, and it's also not some well kept secret that in said city, there are parking meters which require real live change to actually work. This is not news. Maybe people should just try being prepared for shit they know they're going to have to do?

I keep the car stocked with change, for parking meters. It's not hard.


I also don't buy anyone needs a car that badly. One of the techs who works for me....spends two hours on a damn bus every day. Each way. Yeah it sucks, but you know what? You don't *need* a car. Bicycle, walk, learn to get by.

[johnc]

ciao warren ... my bad for not understanding your original comment. 

anarchy in the UK USA!!! 

That's not quite what I was saying.  I'm sure that they've gotten instructions to increase ticketing.  *How* that  increased enforcement occurs is likely left up to people who don't ususally make policy decisions, and maybe even up to individual DPT enforcers.  Thus, you see stuff like what Joe was talking about.  I seriously doubt one of the higher-ups said "let's start really getting people with the curbed wheels statute."  More likely, the directive came down from on-high to just to increase revenue, leaving the implementation up to others.     

[Spidey]

I call hogwash on your hogwash Take a stroll down 15th Street sometime. These aren't the Valencia Garden dwellers with $5000 worth of spinner rims on their SUVs. These are the beat-to-shit used cars, often bought from the used car dealers in the area, for a couple grand. The nice cars tend to be in garages around here.

I call hogwash on your calling hogwash on my hogwash.  And I feel no sympathy for folks that get tix.  That said, screwing with the DPT guy and feeding all the meters is satisfying enough that it was well worth whatever it cost ya.    

I hate this budget bullshit.  

[desmoquattro]

I call hogwash on your calling hogwash on my hogwash.  And I feel no sympathy for folks that get tix.  That said, screwing with the DPT guy and feeding all the meters is satisfying enough that it was well worth whatever it cost ya.    

I hate this budget bullshit.  

Ditto on that. The budget certainly affects you, being an at-will city employee and all.

I've learned a bit of nuance when it comes to tickets. I'm usually the guy calling the DPT to tow people out of my driveway, and I friggin hate that our society gives people few other options besides cars. But yes, there are people who have no other options...try having two or three jobs and spending several hours a day on transit. And it's very easy for us relatively well-off people with no kids (well, until Spawn of Spidey comes along, right on schedule, in a week), garages for our cars, and disposable income to pay those parking fines to scoff at others. But when they start tagging us for parking between cars or for parking on sidewalks, we tend to get upset

Let's leave it at this: sticking it to the man....any version of the man...is fun, no matter what the context.