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Garage heater part II

Started by ducatiz, January 04, 2009, 08:04:18 PM

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ducatiz

January 04, 2009, 08:04:18 PM
I am still working over this issue.  I got a kerosene heater but it is not going to cut it.  I don't like having a portable heater and the kerosene models have a wick that burns and stinks.

I found this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45603


Quote30,000 BTU NATURAL GAS BLUE FLAME HEATER WITH THERMOSTAT

It runs on nat gas and can be wall mounted.  Moreover, it has a real thermostat and fan, but the fan is optional.

I wanted a wood stove, but the more I look at it, a "vent free" solution is better.  I have no problem with fresh air exchange in the garage, and I even plan to install a CO alarm and put a small vent in the window (heat loss, but safer).

This model operates between 14.000 and 30.000 BTU.  I think that is fine for the garage, which is about 900 sq ft.  I don't need it to be toasty, I just want the bikes and stuff to stay warmish and for the bedroom floors above to not be BFC.

I've read about the difference between blue flame and infrared NG heaters and think a blue flame is best. 

Also, NG is pretty cheap here, I figure the cost to run about $2.50/day if it runs at 20.000 btus for 24 hours.

any thoughts on the matter?  i am pretty sure a wood (or pellet or any other kind) of stove needing exhaust is out, despite the fact i have about 5-6 cords of wood on my property right now (we have 2 fireplaces, no worries)

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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

red baron

#1
January 04, 2009, 08:06:26 PM
Look into  Reznor furnace that hangs from the ceiling. I had one in NY and it was awesome would heat the garage to 80 in 30 minutes. Took me 4 hours to install including running the pipe  for the gas.
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations... James Madison

Randimus Maximus

#2
January 04, 2009, 08:09:55 PM
Trent is making furnaces now?  ???
;)












ducatiz

#3
January 04, 2009, 08:10:46 PM Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 08:12:37 PM by ducatizzzz
Quote from: trouble on January 04, 2009, 08:06:26 PM
Look into  Reznor furnace that hangs from the ceiling. I had one in NY and it was awesome would heat the garage to 80 in 30 minutes. Took me 4 hours to install including running the pipe  for the gas.

those are too damn big, this is only an 8 ft ceiling!

plus i don't need 80 deg, i just need about a 40-50 deg differential.  i'd like to keep it above 60 deg in winter.

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

red baron

#4
January 04, 2009, 08:24:42 PM
If this price is correct it's a steal.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3E383
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations... James Madison

aaronb

#5
January 04, 2009, 08:34:43 PM
i've heard great things about these       ;D



Milwaukee, WI
'07 s2r1k, '81 honda cb400t

factorPlayer

#6
January 04, 2009, 11:01:27 PM
hmm.... middle one, I'd hit it.

capt steubing

#7
January 05, 2009, 01:28:52 AM
I have the exact same heaters in my house, and they are great.  The heater that you listed is too big for what you want to do, if you just want to take the edge off, then 10-15,000 BTUs will suffice. We heat our entire home with the 30,000 BTU model, and it keeps the house toasty. If you are just heating the garage with it, I'd go with the radiant model, the blue flame model that we have emits a really significant amount of moisture into the air, so much so that we are having to get a dehumidifier for mold issues. We bought our heaters from Northern Equipment and I think they were less than the one you posted.  You can pm me if you have any specific questions since I have both the radiant and blue flame models in my house.

ducatiz

#8
January 05, 2009, 03:48:55 AM Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 04:14:53 AM by ducatizzzz
Quote from: trouble on January 04, 2009, 08:24:42 PM
If this price is correct it's a steal.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3E383

QuoteHeight 33 1/4 Inches, Depth 32 1/2 Inches, Width 20 5/8 Inches, Weight 197 lbs

it's a little big for my application, thanks!  if i had 15 ft ceilings, i would go for it..

plus, it's propane, i need NG

Quote from: capt steubing on January 05, 2009, 01:28:52 AM
I have the exact same heaters in my house, and they are great.  The heater that you listed is too big for what you want to do, if you just want to take the edge off, then 10-15,000 BTUs will suffice. We heat our entire home with the 30,000 BTU model, and it keeps the house toasty. If you are just heating the garage with it, I'd go with the radiant model, the blue flame model that we have emits a really significant amount of moisture into the air, so much so that we are having to get a dehumidifier for mold issues. We bought our heaters from Northern Equipment and I think they were less than the one you posted.  You can pm me if you have any specific questions since I have both the radiant and blue flame models in my house.

i am surprised the smaller one will suffice, but i can see what you mean with moisture.

the manufacturer seems to think a blue flame model is better than the infrared for a garage application.  can you explain the difference as you see it?

the idea is to heat the garage MAINLY to heat the ceiling -- because we have 2 bedrooms over the garage and the floor is COOOOLD.  i figured i could heat the garage some and get the advantage of the heat rising, which it does.  actually, i think your estimate is on the money since the 13.000 btu kerosene heater i have there now heats it up very well.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#9
January 05, 2009, 04:57:54 AM
If your main goal is to keep the floor above warm I don't believe IR is the way to go. You want something that will heat the air not the objects.

Moisture is a huge issue with un-vented NG/propane appliances.

Most manufacturers of gas appliances offer a kit to switch between NG and propane.
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Slag

#10
January 05, 2009, 05:12:47 AM
Quote from: trouble on January 04, 2009, 08:24:42 PM
If this price is correct it's a steal.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3E383

Out of stock  :-\  I do not need it quite yet, but was going to buy it early for that price! They recommend another model that costs $1,800.00  [laugh]

capt steubing

#11
January 05, 2009, 07:07:43 AM
You are right, I missed the part about heating the floor above, the air would need to be heated.  My wife and I went back and forth about which heater to get, and we have two smaller radiant models, and the main one is a 30,000 btu blue flame model, and even after I see them work, I still can't put my finger on exactly how the heat is different, but it is.  But again if the garage is at all properly insulated and sealed, you will have a problem with moisture.  The model that we got was also a pro-com, but it is a free standing (or wall mountable) unit, and it had a built in fan and a thermostat, which is a big deal if it is going to be in a garage, so you don't have to constantly be going in and out to turn it on and off, and we are really happy with how much heat it puts out, we rarely ever turn on the two smaller units, the bigger unit keeps the entire house warm.

ducatiz

#12
January 05, 2009, 07:30:15 AM Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 07:33:24 AM by ducatizzzz
Quote from: capt steubing on January 05, 2009, 07:07:43 AM
You are right, I missed the part about heating the floor above, the air would need to be heated.  My wife and I went back and forth about which heater to get, and we have two smaller radiant models, and the main one is a 30,000 btu blue flame model, and even after I see them work, I still can't put my finger on exactly how the heat is different, but it is.  But again if the garage is at all properly insulated and sealed, you will have a problem with moisture.  The model that we got was also a pro-com, but it is a free standing (or wall mountable) unit, and it had a built in fan and a thermostat, which is a big deal if it is going to be in a garage, so you don't have to constantly be going in and out to turn it on and off, and we are really happy with how much heat it puts out, we rarely ever turn on the two smaller units, the bigger unit keeps the entire house warm.

The garage insulation is so-so.  The garage is brick over block frame, so the walls are decently insulated, and the garage doors are insulated and have rubber flanges to seal, but there is still a healthy draft.  When the temp drops, the garage gets VERY cold.  There is also a window which has single pan wood frame sashes, I'll probably swap that out for a modern setup but put in some kind of vent for air and moisture.

I think I'll go with the 18.000 btu model, if the 13.000 btu kerosene portable works, then 18k should be plenty.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Oldfisti

#13
January 05, 2009, 10:17:12 AM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on January 05, 2009, 03:48:55 AM
it's a little big for my application, thanks!  if i had 15 ft ceilings, i would go for it..

plus, it's propane, i need NG




DP is correct. Grainger sells the conversion kit for most all their heaters. I have one very similar in a 900 sq. ft. garage with 10' ceiling and it works AWESOME. Hang it in the corner and it shouldn't be in the way. It may seem like overkill on the btu but the advantage is it heats the space quickly and doesn't run often.
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ducatiz

#14
January 05, 2009, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: alfisti on January 05, 2009, 10:17:12 AM

DP is correct. Grainger sells the conversion kit for most all their heaters. I have one very similar in a 900 sq. ft. garage with 10' ceiling and it works AWESOME. Hang it in the corner and it shouldn't be in the way. It may seem like overkill on the btu but the advantage is it heats the space quickly and doesn't run often.

still, it's just too big.  i'd rather go with a smaller unit.   i don't need the garage to be 80 degrees, just enough to keep it around 60, which means a much smaller unit (BTU and physically).

the NG 'blue flame' units apparently work well and i don't mind a drip because it's in the garage so i can put a drip line on it and run it thru the wall.

thanks for the input guys, keep it coming. 

in summary...

garage is about 900 sq ft
kerosene 13.000 btu heater works fine to get the garage to over 70 deg when its 20 outside, but kerosene wick stinks and have to refill the heater, plus it is a floor-sitting portable, which means it takes up space.
NG wall mounted blue flame heater with fan at 18.000 btu will heat just as well and faster with fan but will drip.

i can live with all that.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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