waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[superjohn]

Whats the differance between her and that kid who sunk him familys money into a nigerian scam?

Nothing. 

The kid thought he was going to make money using money...same as the lady. The scam was just packaged differently.

Why do people laugh at him, and the turn around and feel sorry for Bernies  victims? 

And, as stated before..... a bullet to Bernies head is warranted...same goes for anybody scamming people out of money.

Well, to me the difference is a little research shows 50 pages of "scam" alerts about the Nigerian thing.

All the research in the world showed that Madoff was making money.

I feel sorry for the both of them, but until his kids turned him in, there was no mention of Madoff being a scam.

[Kopfjäger]

[Triple J]

Whats the differance between her and that kid who sunk him familys money into a nigerian scam?

Huge difference. For one, the Nigerian scam is well know. Second, it's a classic example of something for nothing. Third, a little thought tells you it is a scam.

Madoff, on the other hand, was a respected investor. There wasn't any reason not to trust him, and he had reports saying everything was legit...as Derby stated. Also, many clients didn't deal directly with him, they invested their money with someone...who in turn invested it with Madoff. From my understanding, many people didn't even know they were invested in his scheme. Now you'll say they should have...but do you know exactly where all of your 401K money is? I know which funds mine is in, but I don't know the ins and outs of every fund.

Losing money in an investment when the investment goes bad (stock crash, business failure, etc.) is one thing...losing it because of a complicated scam is entirely different.

[Grampa]

maybe it's just my perspective.

my entire life..... I  made my money using my back.

I understand buying and selling real things. food, toys, shelter, transportation.

I dont understand selling the paper version of those things, and to me.... thats a big gamble.

[DoubleEagle]

kopfjager, a brilliant choice. I think that song was released around '69.

RIP Duane and Barry    Dolph     

[derby]

Whats the differance between her and that kid who sunk him familys money into a nigerian scam?

Nothing. 

The kid thought he was going to make money using money...same as the lady. The scam was just packaged differently.

Why do people laugh at him, and the turn around and feel sorry for Bernies  victims? 

And, as stated before..... a bullet to Bernies head is warranted...same goes for anybody scamming people out of money.

how many banks and charities have fallen victim to nigerian 419 scams?

how many banks and charities have fallen victim to madoff?

the difference is that anybody with an ounce of common sense should be able to spot the nigerian stuff as scams.

[herm]

maybe it's just my perspective.

my entire life..... I  made my money using my back.

I understand buying and selling real things. food, toys, shelter, transportation.

I dont understand selling the paper version of those things, and to me.... thats a big gamble.

what are your plans for retirement?
do you have any kind of 401k?
if not, how are you planning for your golden grey and wrinkly years?

with corporate america having mostly ditched the employee pension, 401k/IRA, etc... is the best and only hope most americans have for saving for their retirement. simply putting every extra penny you have into a savings account is not enough.

is it a gamble? yes, but its better than people planning to live of their kids, or the govt.

[Grampa]

what are your plans for retirement?
do you have any kind of 401k?
if not, how are you planning for your golden grey and wrinkly years?

with corporate america having mostly ditched the employee pension, 401k/IRA, etc... is the best and only hope most americans have for saving for their retirement. simply putting every extra penny you have into a savings account is not enough.

is it a gamble? yes, but its better than people planning to live of their kids, or the govt.

I plan on working, and I save. And when I cant work.... pull the plug

I have a 401k  and yup.... its a gamble.

[CowboyBeebop]

What Madoff was selling was a hedge fund, which are about as high-risk an investment as you can make.  Further, to invest 100% of one's savings in any one vehicle - never mind a hedge fund - is monumentally stupid.  Doing those two things is not unlike gambling.  

However, as stated before, Madoff ran a ponzi scheme complete with the proper paperwork.  There was no way for any of his investors to know that they were being scammed.  If they had lost their money because the market collapsed, then yes, they gambled and lost.  Their loss, however, was not the result of gambling on the market, but theft.  

The fact that this guy is under house arrest is disgusting.  If the justice system still works, he will spend the rest of his natural life in jail.  And not Club Fed - a real, pound-you-in-the-ass prison.  

[Grampa]

I see  zero correlation between this and falling for a scam.

because they were and are both scams.

just because Bernie covered his better makes it no less a scam. no more or less evil.

just because the education and common sense level of Bernies victims is higher makes the end result no less different. they all got scammed in the end.


and as stated before..... it, IMO, is  a gamble be it legit or a scam.

if the ladys investments took a shit and everything has handled legit..... the end result is the same.

it  all  involved risk and trust in somebody other than themselves.

[Grampa]

The fact that this guy is under house arrest is disgusting.  If the justice system still works, he will spend the rest of his natural life in jail.  And not Club Fed - a real, pound-you-in-the-ass prison.  

make the beast with two backs that.... seize his assets...then put a bullet in his head.

send a message

[swampduc]

BP, keep in mind that not only did Madoff "cover" his scam with paperwork, as you said, but was twice investigated by the SEC and found to be legit. Now, if I were investing in an entity and knew that the govt regulatory agency in charge of that said that they were legit, I would be more likely to invest with them, rather than say, playing 3 card monty in Times Square like some dipshit friend of mine did about 10 yrs ago.

[CowboyBeebop]

because they were and are both scams.

and as stated before..... it, IMO, is  a gamble be it legit or a scam.

if the ladys investments took a shit and everything has handled legit..... the end result is the same.

it  all  involved risk and trust in somebody other than themselves.

I'm not sure I understand you argument, but that's never stopped me from shooting of my mouth.  

Taking your gambling analogy, are there not rules to games of chance?   Before you play, do you not know the probability of winning and losing? Do the dice weigh properly, are a certain number of cards in the deck, etc?  If one changes those rules without making the changes known, what was once gambling is now cheating.  There are rules to investing.  Madoff cheated.  Therefor, the losese incurred by his clients were not the result of their gamble, but his cheating.  

[derby]

What Madoff was selling was a hedge fund, which are about as high-risk an investment as you can make.  Further, to invest 100% of one's savings in any one vehicle - never mind a hedge fund - is monumentally stupid.  Doing those two things is not unlike gambling.  

i don't think it's exactly that simple... it's my understanding that "Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC" was acting as a brokerage company executing trades for other institutions (including hedge funds, banks, charities, etc) as well as an investment advisory business.

the "scam" was bernie advising these entities to invest in his personally-managed, traded-by-his-brokerage funds that weren't actually comprised of any investments.

also, by definition, hedge funds shouldn't be riskier than other non-hedged investments. that, of course, would depend on the aggressiveness of the fund manager.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedge_fund

As the name implies, hedge funds often seek to offset potential losses in the principal markets they invest in by hedging their investments using a variety of methods, most notably short selling. However, the term "hedge fund" has come to be applied to many funds that do not actually hedge their investments, and in particular to funds using short selling and other "hedging" methods to increase rather than reduce risk, with the expectation of increasing return.

[CowboyBeebop]

are you sure about that? it's my understanding that "Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC" was acting as a brokerage company executing trades for other institutions (including hedge funds, banks, charities, etc) as well as an investment advisory business.

the "scam" was bernie advising these entities to invest in his personally-managed funds that weren't actually comprised of any investments.

"Hedge fund" is a lose term, but as I understand it, his fund claimed to employ a fairly complicated collar strategy.  What I was referring to by "selling" was his marketing of his fund, which was in fact a Ponzi scheme.  Even if it had not been a scam, his investors should have known that his fund was more than a simple index or mutual fund.