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750-->900ss engine swap, and ecu swap problem

Started by Monsterlover, January 31, 2009, 02:22:06 PM

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Monsterlover

#15
February 02, 2009, 06:07:20 PM
**************************************UPDATE****************************************


I plugged in the 750ecu tonight just to see if I could get it to start.

It cranked.

And cranked.

And cranked and cranked and cranked and then I got one singular puff out the exhaust.  I checked spark and fuel on both cylinders and was good.

What seemed to help was putting my battery charger on full boil while cranking.  I suspect it was a battery voltage issue as it fired up finally.

It ran, and reved up great!!  Throttle response was killer!

But it would not idle.

I decided that since the fast idle lever and cable was gone I'd get it going and run it at 2k or so until it warmed up a little.

That worked.  It idled fine!!  Sounds mean!!   [evil] [moto] [evil]


So Im pretty happy that it runs at least.  This confirms that the engine is good, and that I put it all back together correctly.  That's cam belts, and all the gears I could get at without splitting the case open.

However, idling and reving up in my garage is one thing, hard on the gas out of a corner in 3rd gear is another.  I wish I had some way to tell if the 750 ecu was enough for a 900 or not.

There is a bike dyno about a block away.  I could just ride this thing there when the snow melts and we could give it a run.

Right now the plan is to get myself a 99 900ss, 99 750ss and 00 M900 electrical diagram to see what's similar and what's not.

Does anyone have access to these diagrams?  Google is failing me right now.
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

ducpainter

#16
February 02, 2009, 06:09:38 PM
Quote from: Monsterlover on February 02, 2009, 06:07:20 PM
**************************************UPDATE****************************************


I plugged in the 750ecu tonight just to see if I could get it to start.

It cranked.

And cranked.

And cranked and cranked and cranked and then I got one singular puff out the exhaust.  I checked spark and fuel on both cylinders and was good.

What seemed to help was putting my battery charger on full boil while cranking.  I suspect it was a battery voltage issue as it fired up finally.

It ran, and reved up great!!  Throttle response was killer!

But it would not idle.

I decided that since the fast idle lever and cable was gone I'd get it going and run it at 2k or so until it warmed up a little.

That worked.  It idled fine!!  Sounds mean!!   [evil] [moto] [evil]


So Im pretty happy that it runs at least.  This confirms that the engine is good, and that I put it all back together correctly.  That's cam belts, and all the gears I could get at without splitting the case open.

However, idling and reving up in my garage is one thing, hard on the gas out of a corner in 3rd gear is another.  I wish I had some way to tell if the 750 ecu was enough for a 900 or not.

There is a bike dyno about a block away.  I could just ride this thing there when the snow melts and we could give it a run.

Right now the plan is to get myself a 99 900ss, 99 750ss and 00 M900 electrical diagram to see what's similar and what's not.

Does anyone have access to these diagrams?  Google is failing me right now.
I had to do that when it was a seven fitty...

Did you pm ducvet?
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


Monsterlover

#17
February 02, 2009, 06:49:33 PM
Not yet.

Will do that tonight.

[thumbsup]

At least it runs
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Duck-Stew

#18
February 02, 2009, 07:38:01 PM
The '99 SS750 and '99 SS900 diagrams will be identical to help save some time.  The '00 M900 (assuming the donor motor here) would be a good diagram to have also.

Your SS750 ecu should be reflashed with a DP SS900 program and that will be enough fuel to run the motor as god intended.  NEVERMIND the sticker on the casing...that only tells you how it was originally programmed.  Get it reflashed and ride on.
Bike-less Portuguese immigrant enjoying life.

Monsterlover

#19
February 02, 2009, 07:42:33 PM
Not a bad plan.

How do I do that?

Also, the 900ss and 750ss ecus and harnesses I have are different.  All the donor parts I have are from a 900ss that I thought was a 99, but now Im wondering if it isn't a 2000.

Would a PC2 be a better way to go?
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Duck-Stew

#20
February 03, 2009, 06:47:45 AM
Quote from: Monsterlover on February 02, 2009, 07:42:33 PM
Not a bad plan.

How do I do that?

Also, the 900ss and 750ss ecus and harnesses I have are different.  All the donor parts I have are from a 900ss that I thought was a 99, but now Im wondering if it isn't a 2000.

Would a PC2 be a better way to go?

a PC III may be a better way to go, but I doubt it will adjust the ignition timing which was set up for a 750...  *COULD* be a problem there.

As far as the reflash goes, I think Ferracci does it.
Bike-less Portuguese immigrant enjoying life.

Monsterlover

#21
February 03, 2009, 06:48:57 AM
I contact them, thanks!
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Gimpy

#22
February 05, 2009, 04:05:57 PM
Do you still need those electrical diagrams? I have a Haynes Manual that includes all those models.  The electrical diagrams are in color.  The big but coming is that I would have to figure out my ancient scanner that I haven't used in years.  If you would like me to give it a shot shot me a PM with an email address. 

Monsterlover

#23
February 05, 2009, 05:35:13 PM
I do, pm comin' your way

[thumbsup]
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

brad black

#24
February 08, 2009, 04:45:01 AM
the up to '99 ss models use the 1.5M.A0, the '00 ss onwards use the 1.5M.A8.  the side stand switch input is the difference.  the sticker on the back will have these markings.  the A8 may work in an early bike, it may even run well, or not at all.  we had a few issues with these with early dp ecu and applications thereof.

there is some other difference between monster and ss which meant that monster ecu didn't work in ss and visa versa.  i don't recall fully now.  we did also get a few dp ecu that wouldn't work in ss that worked in monsters from memory, altho marked as ss, that sort of thing.

plus all the 750ss and 900 ss models used the old green end feed injectors, whereas the 900m and then all other "new" injected 2v motors from '02 onward - 620, 750m, 800 and 1000 - used the pico iwp043, so the flow rates are a bit different too and the maps don't directly compare.

the 900 will need about 20% more fuel than the 750, as it's about 20% bigger.  the spark maps are actually fairly similar, altho the 900m has quite a bit less spark at lower throttle over 4,000 rpm - in some places 15 degrees less than the ss.  don't know why, buit i know it seems to give a wacky miss if you increase it to ss levels, as i tried it once.

the guzzi v11 also use the A0 ecu, even tho they also have a side stand switch.

with the ultimap software you can turn a 750 ecu into a 900 ecu by flashing in a 750 map then making a custom 750 map and flashing that then flashing a custom 900 map over that.  custom meaning one you've modified in some way and saved as a custom map.  in reality you need only change one cell, if at all.  you just need to save it as a custom.  this was because of how duane set up the "return to std feature" i think.

hth.
Brad The Bike Boy

http://www.bikeboy.org

Monsterlover

#25
February 08, 2009, 06:05:55 AM
It does, thanks. I'll read it again when I'm home but it's a good start. I'll look at the ecus that I have and I'll post the part numbers just on the off chance someone can tell me what years the are from.
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Monsterlover

#26
February 09, 2009, 04:18:50 PM
Thinking out loud. . .

what about one of these?

I know that leaves the ignition curve untouched . . .
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

brad black

#27
February 10, 2009, 03:55:22 AM
given how similar the ignition maps are it'd probably be fine.

the 900 has a higher idle throttle position spec than the 750 too.  750 is 1.65 degrees, 900 is 2.4.  otherwise you might end up with the air bleeds out an extra turn or so, which may lean out the low throttle fuelling quite a bit.  just something to be aware of.
Brad The Bike Boy

http://www.bikeboy.org

Monsterlover

#28
February 10, 2009, 04:50:48 AM
Are you talking degrees of timing or degrees of throttle plate open at idle?
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Speeddog

#29
February 10, 2009, 08:52:53 AM
Quote from: Monsterlover on February 10, 2009, 04:50:48 AM
Are you talking degrees of timing or degrees of throttle plate open at idle?

He's talking throttle plate AFAIK.
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