What I hate about Ducati…

[sally101]

I thought it was "Ape shall not kill ape", but I digress.

No no no.. The original quote was from Fight Club.. My responses to obscure references seem a lot less clever when I have to explain them. 

[Bill in OKC]

The yin and yang of Ducati...
http://www.philaphoto.com/images/Ducati-Feb09/index.html

[Sleeper_I]

I for one, assuming most non riders as well, never heard of Ducati cameras, shoes, or bikinis until my visit to the dealers and prowling this board.

[NvrSummer]

No no no.. The original quote was from Fight Club.. My responses to obscure references seem a lot less clever when I have to explain them. 

No worries sally, I picked it up.  Another good one considering how much time we all spend here!!!   

"The things you own end up owning you.  It's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything."

[Popeye the Sailor]

While I can see the purpose of this marketing philosphy, I can tell you one thing is a guarantee. If they shuold try to make Ducatis something for the masses the quailty will suffer. The scale of production there allows the company to keep closer tabs on QC then they could at a much higher number of units produced.

Are you saying their product is better because they make less of them?

[mrplease]

too bad some of the people Jeff has working for him (Scott in Dallas specifically) aren't the same type of people.

agreed! that dude rubbed me wrong as well...

[EvilSteve]

According to an interview with Michael Locke, Ducati NA president, this is not the case.
He said that he sees a Ducati as something any biker should be able to afford and get.

He may well say that but it's not reflected in their pricing.

Ducati Monster 696: $8,995

Ducati Monster 1100: $11,995
Ducati Monster 1100 S: $13,995
Ducati Streetfighter: $14,995
Ducati Streetfighter S: $18,995
Ducati Multistrada 1100 S: $14,495
Ducati Hypermotard 1100: $11,995
Ducati Hypermotard 1100 S: $14,495
Ducati 848: $13,995
Ducati 1198: $16,495
Ducati 1198 S: $21,795
Ducati SportClassic GT 1000 Touring: $11,995
Ducati SportClassic Sport 1000: $11,995
Ducati SportClassic Sport 1000 S: $12,995

Ducati 1098 R Bayliss LE $43,995.00

Ignoring the outliers for a second, the average price is somewhere around $14,600, so $15,000. I think many Ducatisti can afford that but most bikers? I think not. Back on TOB a Ducati strategy document was discovered and discussed. The plan was to remove all entry level bikes except one and push the margins and prices up. That's exactly what they've done, whether they're saying that or not is beside the point.

[ducatiz]

No no no.. The original quote was from Fight Club.. My responses to obscure references seem a lot less clever when I have to explain them. 

well, the problem is that there are plenty of "first rule" myths

star trek
fight club
Isle of Dr Moro
Planet of the Apes
etc etc

[wantingaduc]

MrIn

What I'm saying is that for any given product, smaller production levels  usually allow higher production quality.

Citing the example of the 2 companies, Porsche and Ferrari is a perfect example.
Porsche makes a lot more cars (although still a small amount in terms of most manufactures) and they are of good quality.
Ferrari makes fewer cars and their overall product quality is higher.

GM makes a s load of cars that are mostly poor quality in relation to the other 2.
Honda makes a lot of cas, and most are of high quality, but look at the amount of time and money have been invested in making sure that the production line quality is as high as they can make it in order to maintain their standards.

Now keep in mind there are variables like price etc, but I'm talking about a comparison of quality to production.

When a company decides to ramp up production they have 2 options.

Invest in more production capacity and with it the manpower to make and inspect the product in order to maintain quality or
make more of the product and allow the chips to fall where they may in terms of quality.

There are numerous companies that make vast quantities of a specific product that are of high quality, but when it comes to products that are as complex a system as a motorized vehicle (bike, car, plane, etc...) more product at the same quality means a lot more investment.

jimi

[Clickjack]

I think your right and your wrong.   I read this post expecting something else entirely.  My ducati experience has been a mixed bag.  The GM of a very highly rated/well known store treated me like shit for needing warranty work and not buying the bike from him (didn't even have my bike when I was looking).  The sales guy who sold me my bike was indiferent at best, and not at all helpful.   Ducati NA hasn't been over whelming either (aforementioned warranty work).   Basically they have all made me feel like I don't belong in there elite club.

That being said every tech I have spoken with has been honest, helpful, and very cool to me.  

I came from Harley.  Harley bent over backwards for me in the 5 years I rode their bike.  When my business failed and I was late on payments for two years, they went out of their way to help me keep my bike.  The local HD shop has been more helpful and cool about my Duc then either of the Duc stores I have worked with. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Ducati took a page from the HD customer care playbook.

I love this bike and I love the fellow riders.  This board has made it plausible
For me to keep this bike.  

I love the fashionista qualities of my bike, even if it means that she's a little quirky and high maitenance, all the beautful women in my life have been.

I even kinda like the pumas & track jackets, though I ain't buying them.  I can do without the truck, wine and USB.  

you have to rember 10/15 years ago no one had heard of Ducati.  It was for conisuers only, the company made little money and most of us wouldn't be riding the if they hadn't tried to branch out and make themselves more assesible to us.   I think that fashionista mind set gave us the stylish bikes we are riding, and as long as quality keeps getting better, I'm down with them trying new things and making more money.  Ducati is still small enough that we feel like we own a piece of it.   I don't think shoes are going to change that.

[ItalianHarley]

I don't understand how a $9000 bike can be considered exclusive and is compared to a Porsche and/or Ferrari.  That just doesn't make sense to me.   I also don't recall Ferrari or Porsche announcing a logo change to "celebrate" the thrill of their rides. 

To the OP, if you don't like "image" Ducati is selling with their Marketing strategies get another bike.   

[Popeye the Sailor]

MrIn

What I'm saying is that for any given product, smaller production levels  usually allow higher production quality.

Citing the example of the 2 companies, Porsche and Ferrari is a perfect example.
Porsche makes a lot more cars (although still a small amount in terms of most manufactures) and they are of good quality.
Ferrari makes fewer cars and their overall product quality is higher.

jimi

Define "Quality" in this instance. Is it better performance? Reliability? A combination? AKA, on what basis do you claim that Ferrari is a higher quality product than Porsche?

[DW]

Wow, lots of posts in a short timespan...

First, I agree with the OP in spirit.  The company is perhaps going overboard on marketing.

Second, my local shop is not all about the accesories.  Sure they have them and are more than happy to sell them to you, but they would much rather sell a bike or performance component.  They sell Ducati because they believe in the product, not the accesories or lifestyle.  You can see this in the other lines they offer - KTM (High quality "ready to race"), Triumph (unique design and broad model range), and Suzuki (Rounds out the model line to compete with the other local shops).   That is a pretty broad portfolio of bikes they believe in.  They will not sell you something they do not themselves believe to be a superior product.

And finally, some people really do get into the whole lifestyle thing.  There were plenty of people (including myself) hanging around Ducati island at the Indy GP.  Absolutely the best party going at the track.  Perhaps the espresso shots were a bit cheesy, didn't stop me from having some.  The bikes on display certainly had more credibility than the Yamaha Bling tent  .

If the end result is a profitable manufacturer in turbulent economic times, Bravo!   [moto] 

[RichD]

Define "Quality" in this instance. Is it better performance? Reliability? A combination? AKA, on what basis do you claim that Ferrari is a higher quality product than Porsche?

I agree with your question...

To do the "Southpark thing" and push a premise to the extreme to emphasize a point:
A Top Fuel dragster could be considered "higher quality" than a Chevy Aveo.
But which one will last longer?

I would bet a Porche will go much farther than a Ferrari on the same amount of maintenance.
Why?
Because Porche make MORE cars and has a longer product run to work the bugs out.

The 1098/1198/848 platform is a great bike -but if you heard the stories of the first few thousand made
-and the problems that were experienced with them-
**and they only produced those first bikes** 
-you would probably be not-so-impressed with them.
But they WERE produced in number, and that number has the power to increase quality over time.

Low production and first-run items are going to have quality flaws.
Items that are super-high performance are going to have life/quality/performance issues that to all but .005% of consumers are unacceptable.

[fastwin]

Good point Rich.