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Routinely unable to access first gear -- FIXED!!

Started by DucHead, February 09, 2009, 03:03:25 PM

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ducpainter

#15
February 11, 2009, 06:27:21 AM
Looks different exploded.... :o

I was thinking #15...gearchange lever pin.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


DucHead

#16
February 11, 2009, 06:45:20 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on February 11, 2009, 06:27:21 AM
Looks different exploded.... :o

I was thinking #15...gearchange lever pin.

Hmmm...I'm away from the bike...what the hell is nut/bolt #13/15 securing?
'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"

ducpainter

#17
February 11, 2009, 07:17:06 AM
Quote from: pompetta on February 11, 2009, 06:45:20 AM
Hmmm...I'm away from the bike...what the hell is nut/bolt #13/15 securing?
I think that's the eccentric that centers the arm.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


DucHead

#18
February 11, 2009, 07:25:37 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on February 11, 2009, 07:17:06 AM
I think that's the eccentric that centers the arm.

Yep, and if that's loose the center line wouldn't be constant.  I'll definitely check that out.

Thanks.
'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"

Speeddog

#19
February 11, 2009, 09:14:18 AM
The eccentric bolt #15 adjusts the 'center' position of the shift arm #16, relative to the bracket #23.

This is important, as the 'ears' on bracket #23 (just below and to the right of the #15 'balloon') control the stop position of the rotation of the shift arm.

That eccentric may be maladjusted or loose, which could prevent the necessary amount of rotation.

IME, you have to take the shift assembly off to properly do the adjustment, the locknut #13 is too tight and access is very poor with it installed.
You may need to judiciously grind down a box wrench to fit on the locknut.

You will need an impact gun and suitable size and depth of socket to get the flywheel nut off.
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~

DucHead

#20
February 11, 2009, 10:39:42 AM Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 10:43:11 AM by pompetta
Quote from: Speeddog on February 11, 2009, 09:14:18 AM
The eccentric bolt #15 adjusts the 'center' position of the shift arm #16, relative to the bracket #23.

This is important, as the 'ears' on bracket #23 (just below and to the right of the #15 'balloon') control the stop position of the rotation of the shift arm.

That eccentric may be maladjusted or loose, which could prevent the necessary amount of rotation.

IME, you have to take the shift assembly off to properly do the adjustment, the locknut #13 is too tight and access is very poor with it installed.
You may need to judiciously grind down a box wrench to fit on the locknut.

You will need an impact gun and suitable size and depth of socket to get the flywheel nut off.

Thanks Speeddog.  From that exploded view, I'm just not seeing how the eccentric bolt does its job, but I do understand what you are saying.
 Ah, now I get it.   :)
I just got back from lunch and checked the nut #13, and its good and tight.  It doesn't seem likely that its the culprit, but I'll take a closer look tonight.
'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"

DucHead

#21
February 13, 2009, 06:48:24 AM Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 06:52:57 AM by pompetta
The Ducati tech at the local shop recommends moving the shifter fork toward the rear of the bike a bit.  That should rotate the drum a little further when shifting into first.

I'm gonna try this tomorrow...perhaps move it 5mm.  To do so, I think I have to loosen both bolts #18 and #20, right?

Any thought/opinions?
'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"

ducpainter

#22
February 13, 2009, 06:54:40 AM
Quote from: pompetta on February 13, 2009, 06:48:24 AM
The Ducati tech at the local shop recommends moving the shifter fork toward the rear of the bike a bit.  That should rotate the drum a little further when shifting into first.

I'm gonna try this tomorrow...perhaps move it 5mm.

Any thought/opinions?
I think I'd try a couple of mm at most.

5 is .2". That's way more than a bit.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


DucHead

#23
February 13, 2009, 07:12:33 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on February 13, 2009, 06:54:40 AM
I think I'd try a couple of mm at most.

5 is .2". That's way more than a bit.

OK, thanks.

I have to loosen both bolts, right?
'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"

ducpainter

#24
February 13, 2009, 07:31:35 AM
Quote from: pompetta on February 13, 2009, 07:12:33 AM
OK, thanks.

I have to loosen both bolts, right?
I think so...

Loosen one more than the other. You need some resistance so it will stay where you put it.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


Speeddog

#25
February 13, 2009, 08:22:06 AM
Yes, you have to loosen both bolts.

Why they've got 2 different size bolts, I don't know.
Seems like a 'fix' for initially having one, that they found wasn't enough.

I'd go for 1 mm to start with.
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~

DucHead

#26
February 13, 2009, 11:20:56 AM
Quote from: Speeddog on February 13, 2009, 08:22:06 AM
Yes, you have to loosen both bolts.

Why they've got 2 different size bolts, I don't know.
Seems like a 'fix' for initially having one, that they found wasn't enough.

I'd go for 1 mm to start with.

Wow, OK.  Thanks Nick.
'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"

DucHead

#27
February 14, 2009, 12:59:54 PM
OK, so I made a Sharpie mark on the shifter drum, loosened both bolts, and moved the fork back about 1 mm.  It seems to have made a difference, but with the additional play in the shifter rod (#16; because the cover is off) , it's difficult to tell whether or not the adjustment made a substantial difference.  Occasionally, it does not go and takes a second try.  According to spec, I torqued the 8mm and 6mm bolts to 25- and 9 N•m respectively.

It will be a pain in the ass if I have to remove the alternator cover later to adjust this again, but at least now I know how to do it.

Thanks for everyone's input.   [thumbsup]   [moto]   [beer]

That said, additional comments/suggestions/advice are welcome.   :)
'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"

krista

#28
February 15, 2009, 05:33:00 PM
If it's of any help, we sell alternator cover gaskets that we have custom made for us. Until those, I dreaded taking that cover off.
Krista Kelley ... autist formerly known as chris
official nerd for ca-cycleworks.com

DucHead

#29
February 15, 2009, 05:56:59 PM
Quote from: chris on February 15, 2009, 05:33:00 PM
If it's of any help, we sell alternator cover gaskets that we have custom made for us. Until those, I dreaded taking that cover off.

Yeah that looks nice.  I think I'll order one plus a spare.  Do I also use the "gasket in a tube" stuff in addition to the fiber gasket?
'05 S4R (>47k mi); '04 Bandit 1200 (>92k mi; sold); '02 Bandit 1200 (>11k mi); '97 Bandit 1200 (2k mi); '13 FJR1300 (1k mi); IBA #28454 "45"
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