Official Group buy for Smiley Face Shield stickers thread

[He Man]

Hey guys, I like that everyone is intrested, but there isnt an official count going on yet. it looks like the price through BastardHK is fixed at around $35 shipped to your door. When bastardHK gets the sample, ill start an official list!

[Goat_Herder]

Hey guys, I like that everyone is intrested, but there isnt an official count going on yet. it looks like the price through BastardHK is fixed at around $35 shipped to your door. When bastardHK gets the sample, ill start an official list!

[bishop]

$35 Ship to door for the States, I assume. How much to Canada?

[sroberts152]

Where you going to find yellow gloves?

Icon... 

[He Man]

  bastardhk anyword?

[OhHeyItsFredy]

why not go to www.skullskins.net and create the smiley face there? Seems to be a lot cheaper

[sroberts152]

That site is great.   

[Goat_Herder]

why not go to www.skullskins.net and create the smiley face there? Seems to be a lot cheaper

That's a cool site.  Can we do a group buy for with skullskins?

[BastrdHK]

Sorry for the delay fellas....my computer holding the pics fried its motherboard Thursday night.  Hold on to your hats, here we go!

I picked up three different samples last Thursday and applied the different vinyl material to three helmets I had on hand (2 AGV w/ clear and mirror shields, 1 Fulmer with clear).  The samples reflect some of the options available.  Two of the samples are 50% printed material/50% perforated (50/50).  The third sample is 70% printable media/30% perforated.  The 70/30 is used most often used for window displays on the outside of buildings because it provides a better image display, while still allowing enough transparency for the window to be usable.  50/50 is what you see on car window graphics b/c transparency is maximized, and the graphic is still viewable. 

There are distinct differences if you look closely at the pictures. 

We put samples of Oracal(Roland product) 50/50 and 70/30 next to each other on a Fulmer w/ clear shield.  Notice the larger diameter perforations and more per sq inch on the 50/50:



Next we asked several people in our office to try it on and give us their opinion.  All voted for the 50/50 vinyl.  It is the obvious choice as it hinders vision approximately 5-10%, while the 70/30 blocks 15%-20%.  Here is a view from inside the helmet w/ 50/50:



We then applied the second sample of 3M 50/50 to an AGV with mirror shield and one with a clear shield.  This material has 1.5mm perforations while the 50/50 above has 2mm.  Personally, I like the smaller perforations.  It is looks better on the helmet:



This pic also shows one of my concerns for our application.  The extreme curve of a visor makes application difficult, and if the adhesive is not aggressive enough or, as in this case, old stock just laying around it will not perform well.  During the test ride I was sure it would not hold.  Amazingly, it did not budge at 80 mph even as I rotated my head from side to side, up and down, and looking behind me.  No flapping or high frequency buzzing.  It just looks like crap.

We rode approx 20mi. in daylight and back to the office at night to test visibility in city traffic and at highway speeds.  I was warned by one of my vendors that he had negative feedback from a few race car drivers he had applied the material for.  They complained that sometimes their eyes would focus on the vinyl on the windshield instead of looking beyond it causing headaches.  I was concerned, and I wanted to test it for myself before I recommend the material to you guys.   I set off with another tester, and was honestly surprised at how unaffected my vision was.  The material has a black backing, and after a few minutes I forgot it was there until I would look over at a stoplight and see my friend and fellow tester with it on his visor.  Even the blank vinyl looked cool!  When we stopped after the daylight run, neither of us had an issue with vision or felt it decreased our awareness.  We had a bite to eat and came back in complete darkness on a mix of city streets and interstate. 

Here is where I will stick the ***WARNING***  My dark tinted mirror shield coupled with the vinyl made it interesting to say the least.  Normally, I would not ride at night with this shield, but I needed to experience it to provide the best feedback for the DMF   I could not distinguish road imperfections/debris and my depth perception was measurably reduced, to the point where I could not accurately judge distance/speed of oncoming cars at intersections.  It also reduced how bright the brake lights of cars were, and we both had late reactions more than once.  When my partner with a clear shield caught himself before riding over a concrete island I figured we had enough data to stop the night test and form an opinion.  ***DON'T RIDE WITH A DARK OR VINYL SHIELD AT NIGHT, IN LOW VISIBILITY, OR INCLEMENT WEATHER!!!

Based on the test and opinions I am having sample graphics printed up by two different vendors.  They will be ready Tuesday afternoon.  I will apply both of them and take pics so we can vote on which looks the best, or if we need to tweak the design.  These will be samples of the final product printed off of new rolls of material.  I am hoping they will adhere better than the old stock we previously tested.

Whew that was a long one!

Hit me with any questions or concerns.

[He Man]

 

do you have a pic of 1.5mm 50/50 vs 2.00mm 50/50? have you come up with a solution to curvature of the lens?
Also have you tried washing your visor? How aggressive do you need to be to start lifting the vinyl?

I'm liking how this is coming along since we can see how the item looks inside.

Will be waiting!

[BastrdHK]

 

do you have a pic of 1.5mm 50/50 vs 2.00mm 50/50? have you come up with a solution to curvature of the lens?
Also have you tried washing your visor? How aggressive do you need to be to start lifting the vinyl?

I'm liking how this is coming along since we can see how the item looks inside.

Will be waiting!

He Man,

I only had a small patch of 2mm 50/50, but I will take pics from inside the helmet tomorrow when the test graphics are printed.  No, I did not wash them after to installation because the samples were not laminated. I am counting on the new material to adhere more aggressively curing the curvature issue.  The Oracal is impossible to pull up without a lifted edge.  The 3M peeled off as easily as painter's tape, but again it was old scrap that they were kicking around the shop floor.  It did not move, flap, or buzz at high speeds....surprised me really!

[trenner]

[...]

We then applied the second sample of 3M 50/50 to an AGV with mirror shield and one with a clear shield.  This material has 1.5mm perforations while the 50/50 above has 2mm.  Personally, I like the smaller perforations.  It looks better on the helmet:



This pic also shows one of my concerns for our application.  The extreme curve of a visor makes application difficult [...] Amazingly, it did not budge at 80 mph [...]

The material has a black backing, and after a few minutes I forgot it was there [...]

Based on the test and opinions I am having sample graphics printed up by two different vendors.  They will be ready Tuesday afternoon.  I will apply both of them and take pics so we can vote on which looks the best, or if we need to tweak the design.  These will be samples of the final product printed off of new rolls of material.  I am hoping they will adhere better than the old stock we previously tested.

I expect that the 1.5 mm 50/50 will give a good tradeoff between graphic appearance and rideability.  Think of the 1.5 mm as the "pixel size", and you'll see why the image should look better than the 2.0 mm 50/50.  Even smaller 50/50 (1.0 mm?) would probably look even better, if it's available.

Is this retroreflective?  When printed upon?  Not required for me to like it, but an added bonus to have a glowing, grinning smiley at night when car lights bounce off it....

Is the material stretchable at all, when applying it?  Or is a lack of play in it one of the reasons why it's so hard to apply?  In other words, are we going to be faced with bubbles and wrinkles along the edges because of a lack of material give?

That black backing is probably a big plus for visibility from the inside.

Anyhow, thanks for the good info!  I personally especially appreciate your willingness to break speed limits in the interests of science.

[BastrdHK]

Anyhow, thanks for the good info!  I personally especially appreciate your willingness to break speed limits in the interests of science.

Ha....I don't need much of a reason really 

Trenner,

Your absolutely right about perforation diameter in relation to pixel count.  At 50' you can't tell the difference between 2mm and 1.5mm, but at 10' it is very evident.  The smallest I have seen is 1.5mm, but I will keep looking for the next batch maybe.  I am trying to source perforated reflective vinyl, as that was my original idea.  No one seems to carry it, nor do they want to buy a roll for such a small order, but I will try and build some confidence with the printing company we end up using. 

The vinyl will stretch slightly, but it is not recommended because the material has memory.  If stretched it will try and return to its original state after application causing cracks and peeling.  The ripples seen in the photo are due to the adhesive being old and separating from its protective backing before I got it. 

- Will

[He Man]

how is this project coming along? Do you have a possible time of when the product will be ready?

[BastrdHK]

He Man,

I am very pleased with how the graphic has turned out.  It looks damn good on the helmet.  I am in the process of writing up the install instructions.  I will post up pics of the graphic on an AGV Stealth.  I want to put up it up to a vote to see if everyone is ok with the current design or if we need to tweak the design before I make the bulk order.  If no modifications are needed we can have the order printed and ready for individual shipping Monday.

I am going to get some full size on bike shots if it ever stops raining.  I will install the graphic on Arai tomorrow and post some pics to show the differences.

- Will