2002 620 not shifting

vinnycactus · March 18, 2009, 07:59:28 AM

I have a 2002 620 with about 12k miles on it. Over the last few months, I've only been riding maybe once/twice a week and have noticed that when engaging the clutch, it doesn't seem to fully engage. For example, when putting into first from neutral, it seems to jump forward a bit. Also, getting into neutral is a pain, especially with the bike is cold. This morning, I was leaving my development and could not get the bike out of second gear.

I would like to get some ideas on what could be the problem. I planned on started with bleeding the clutch and working from there. Just want to get my ducks in a row as I would like to get this worked out over the weekend.

Sorry if this is redundant. Could really find anything specific to the issue I'm having (although i'm sure it's out there).

Thanks

ducpainter · March 18, 2009, 08:09:50 AM

The lurching when engaging first is indicative of incomplete clutch disengagement or dragging plates. Wet clutch plate dragging is not uncommon on bikes that sit. You mentioned it's worse when cold.

I'd bleed the slave, and change the oil if it's close to being due. Make sure you use a moto specific oil in your wet clutched bike to avoid slipping issues..

vinnycactus · March 18, 2009, 09:08:13 AM

it's funny you mention the oil change. I had just changed the oil on Saturday and this was the first day I was going to have the bike out. the only thing i had done was let the bike idle for about 10 minutes after I changed the oil. been running mobile 1 full syn 20w50 if that matters.

ducrider45 · March 18, 2009, 09:46:38 AM

Could be that the linkage is a bit loose. I had this happen. Also try changing the fluid. The O-ring on the slave is known to fail. Is it leaking at all?

gage · March 18, 2009, 10:28:20 AM

Quote from: vinnycactus on March 18, 2009, 09:08:13 AM
it's funny you mention the oil change. I had just changed the oil on Saturday and this was the first day I was going to have the bike out. the only thing i had done was let the bike idle for about 10 minutes after I changed the oil. been running mobile 1 full syn 20w50 if that matters.

I echo what DP siad

Mobile 1 Full Synth may be preventing proper engagement.

Moto specific oils have friction modifiers to help with this.

vinnycactus · March 18, 2009, 10:37:37 AM

Quote from: gage on March 18, 2009, 10:28:20 AM
I echo what DP siad

Mobile 1 Full Synth may be preventing proper engagement.

Moto specific oils have friction modifiers to help with this.

forgot to add that it's mobile 1 vtwin full synthetic

ducrider45 · March 18, 2009, 10:45:07 AM

Quote from: gage on March 18, 2009, 10:28:20 AM
I echo what DP siad

Mobile 1 Full Synth may be preventing proper engagement.

Moto specific oils have friction modifiers to help with this.

Engine oil will not cause your bike not to shift. It can cause slipping. If the bike is not shifting, it can only be the clutch fluid bleed/ level issue, external linkage or the internal sift timing linkage. I had a similar issue and it was a bad slave. The other issue that I have seen is a loose shift peddle.

ducpainter · March 18, 2009, 06:06:20 PM

Quote from: ducrider45 on March 18, 2009, 10:45:07 AM
Engine oil will not cause your bike not to shift. It can cause slipping. If the bike is not shifting, it can only be the clutch fluid bleed/ level issue, external linkage or the internal sift timing linkage. I had a similar issue and it was a bad slave. The other issue that I have seen is a loose shift peddle.

I disagree.

If the oil is causing the plates to stick together it certainly can cause the bike not to shift.

I don't really think this particular circumstance can be called a shifting issue.

It's more of a clutch disengagement issue.

Langanobob · March 19, 2009, 01:08:54 AM

Sure seems like M620's have an inordinate amount of clutch issues, but most of them are slipping problems. About the oil, this subject has been beat to death 500 times and it never ends amicably

and discussing it should probably be banned like discussing politics. But...here is my 2 cents worth that I've picked up from reading oil threads - the the Mobil V-Twin 20W-50 oil is specifically designed for Harleys. Ducati twins rev higher and the heavier viscosity V-twin oil does not lubricate as well as 10W-40 Mobil 1 Racing 4T, or any quality 10W-40 oil, which is designed for sportbikes. Not that the 20W-50 will do any harm, the 10W-40 is just a little bit better. The heavier oil "might" be contributing to your sticky clutch, I don't know. I have an old Triumph that I run 20W-50 in and the clutch on it turns into a solid rock when not ridden for awhile, but it loosens up after it gets warmed up. And it might do the same thing if I ran 0W-30

I've had a problem with a Ducati dry clutch that exhibited the exact symptoms you describe. It got kind of hairy sometimes at stoplights; could not get it into neutral and with the clutch lever all the way in the bike would want to pull forward. It took me a long time to figure out that the problem was due to the tabs on the clutch friction plates wearing little grooves in the clutch basket tangs. The plates got stuck in the grooves and it kept them from sliding freely and disengaging smoothly. I was able to level out the grooves with a Dremel tool, but the best fix would've been a new clutch basket. Hope this is not your problem and I'm just passing it on as something to look at only if all else fails.

Howie · March 19, 2009, 03:23:45 AM

If bleeding the clutch doesn't help and the slave shows no sign of leaking I would try a moto specific 10W-40. Heavy oil can cause drag.

From your owner's manual, 10W40 is preferred:
Viscosity
SAE 10W-40
The other viscosity degrees indicated in the table can be
used if the local average temperature is within the limits
specified for that oil viscosity.

If it is extremely hot where you are in the summer you might want to run a heavier oil during those months.

ducrider45 · March 19, 2009, 08:23:28 AM

Quote from: ducpainter on March 18, 2009, 06:06:20 PM
I disagree.

If the oil is causing the plates to stick together it certainly can cause the bike not to shift.

I don't really think this particular circumstance can be called a shifting issue.

It's more of a clutch disengagement issue.

True. How common is that?

ducpainter · March 19, 2009, 08:29:10 AM

Quote from: ducrider45 on March 19, 2009, 08:23:28 AM
True. How common is that?

My 750 track bike did it all the time after sitting between track days. It had Klotz in it.

My point about oil was originally intended to prevent the OP putting oil with friction modifiers in and causing slipping.

From reading here many 620 owners have commented about smoother shifting after an oil change...or the reverse.

gh0stie · March 19, 2009, 08:54:00 AM

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=18176.0

I ended up taking mine to the dealership to have the clutch bled and it fixed the issue.........

vinnycactus · March 24, 2009, 06:15:15 AM

well, finally had a chance to bleed the clutch last night. problem solved. and in return of your help, i leave you with bacon

mod
<That photo has been ok in some of the bacon threads...but it's not realy appropriate in tech forum>

News:

2002 620 not shifting