front springs and suspension set up

[bschur13]

ok so if I want the best I have to shell out 5 bills (really not liking that option) but from what I am reading here, just putting in new springs should make quite a change being that I am on a crappy stock set  up as it is. 

so if I have the adjustable showas, what brand replacements do you all recommended?   And how bout oil?

 

[ducpainter]

ok so if I want the best I have to shell out 5 bills (really not liking that option) but from what I am reading here, just putting in new springs should make quite a change being that I am on a crappy stock set  up as it is. 

so if I have the adjustable showas, what brand replacements do you all recommended?

 

Race-tech worked for me.

YMMV

[the_Journeyman]

Watch e-bay too.  I picked up a new-in-box kit from Hyperpro with front and rear springs and oil.  Granted I have Marzoochi's and that's about all I could do cheaply.  I was out about $95 shipped.  Made a HUGE difference ~

JM

[bschur13]

Ok so now I got more questions. 

I have been thinking it over and for 300 he said they were going to replace my springs and oil.  (w/o removing the forks)

For 500 he was going to remove them and replace whatever needed replacing. 

Like I said before, I dont want to spend 500, hell I dont even want to spend the 300 but if I am going to shell out the money I might as well step up the extra 200 and do the entire thing.  (all prices were including the springs but no other parts)

*What should I be getting for 500? 
Remember that my mileage is nearly 18k and that I have no idea about shocks. 

*Once they are apart I assume it is best to put in all new stuff (bushings and what not)?
*What parts would I need to order?

[Howie]

Ok so now I got more questions. 

I have been thinking it over and for 300 he said they were going to replace my springs and oil.  (w/o removing the forks)

For 500 he was going to remove them and replace whatever needed replacing. 

Like I said before, I dont want to spend 500, hell I dont even want to spend the 300 but if I am going to shell out the money I might as well step up the extra 200 and do the entire thing.  (all prices were including the springs but no other parts)

*What should I be getting for 500? 
Remember that my mileage is nearly 18k and that I have no idea about shocks. 

*Once they are apart I assume it is best to put in all new stuff (bushings and what not)?
*What parts would I need to order?

If the "he" you are talking about is ducvet, besides the gold valves, shim packs and additional labor an incredible wealth of knowledge of proper fork tuning for your needs.   

[bschur13]

this ducvet guy sound like a legend 

The "he" I was referring to was just the plain old dude at the local racing shop I went to. 

[ducpainter]

this ducvet guy sound like a legend 

The "he" I was referring to was just the plain old dude at the local racing shop I went to. 

Legend...

Nah...

He just knows his shit.

[bschur13]

I think some followers of this post may have missed this one I put up so Ill derby and I had a new ? as well.


I have been thinking it over and for 300 he said they were going to replace my springs and oil.  (w/o removing the forks)

For 500 he was going to remove them and replace whatever needed replacing.

Like I said before, I dont want to spend 500, hell I dont even want to spend the 300 but if I am going to shell out the money I might as well step up the extra 200 and do the entire thing.  (all prices were including the springs but no other parts)

*What should I be getting for 500?
Remember that my mileage is nearly 18k and that I have no idea about shocks.

*Once they are apart I assume it is best to put in all new stuff (bushings and what not)?
*What parts would I need to order?

*Are gold valves necessary because they seem very costly as far as parts go for the internals?  Will they make a huge difference? 

[stopintime]

My main issue with my Marzocchis was the total lack of rebound - once compressed, they would come jumping back up.
The suspension guru I chose managed to supply good rebound dampening with the stock valves - how he did it is his trade secret.
"Secret" + oil + springs = ~within your option A.

[scott_araujo]

You may be able to tell if the bushings are wearing.  Remove the front wheel and grab the lower fork leg and pull back and forth.  If you feel slop between the upper and lower leg or hear clicking the bushings are worn.  If you need bushings it's a little involved and takes some special tools.

Here is a nice video of a cartridge fork rebuild, should give you an idea of what you are in for:
Change motorcycle fork seals part 1 (of 2) cartridge type

As for supporting the bike, a rear stand and something solid to prop under the front cylinder will support the bike well enough to get the front wheel off the ground and let you remove the fork legs.  Taking the legs off is pretty easy.

Springs and oil should run around $150 total for parts and should make a big difference.  The Marzocchis aren't great but any fork sucks with the wrong springs and damping/oil for the rider.  Some Marzocchis have one leg doing rebound damping and the other does compression.  If you have this set up you can tune rebound and compression separately with different oil in each leg.  Others, like mine, have both legs doing both.  You can change the oil weight for more or less damping on both but can't tune compression and rebound separately.

If they're not taking the forks off the bike they can't really change all the oil, you need to turn the fork leg upside down to drain it or at least unscrew the cartridge from the bottom.  I'd say they're probably just planning to suck out what oil they can from the top and replace it. 

If can get the bike propped up removing the forks and changing the oil and springs is fairly easy and well worth it for around $150.  $300 seems a pretty fair price if they drain all the oil, change the springs, and set the sag for you. If your bushings are shot you need a rebuild, plain and simple.

Scott

[Howie]

*What should I be getting for 500?
Remember that my mileage is nearly 18k and that I have no idea about shocks.

*Once they are apart I assume it is best to put in all new stuff (bushings and what not)?
*What parts would I need to order?

The above questions should be discussed with the shop doing the work.  Shops who routinely do this work do stock bushings and seals.  Labor rates change geographically.  Labor rates in an area like NYC can be over $100 an hour.  In rural areas labor rates can be as low as $55 an hour.

*Are gold valves necessary because they seem very costly as far as parts go for the internals?  Will they make a huge difference? 

No, they are not necessary.  Many people ride with stock valving and are quite happy.  They can be quite an improvement though, depending on the tech.  You fork has high speed damping and low speed damping, speed not meaning how fast you are going, but how fast the fork is moving.  High speed damping is controlled by the valve, which is a disc with holes drilled through it.  The smaller the holes, the more resistance to fluid flow.  The Gold Valves have bigger holes than standard valves.  Low speed damping is controlled by the shim stacks.  The selection of shim stacks, as well as oil viscosity and quantity and spring rate is the secret.  A tech who is good at suspension tuning will come up with the right combination for your weight, riding style and road conditions.  The OEM (Ducati) set up is a compromise to satisfy as many riders in as many locals as possible.  Whether the difference will be worth it or not has to be your decision

[caperix]

Street or track, the upgrade is worth it.

I would suggest you don't let them use the recommended race-tech stack though.

It will be harsh.

When ducvet did my forks he modified the stack so only the largest bumps are even felt.

Is there another chart that is more accurate on the spring sugestions?  I checked Traxxion & ohlins & was not able to find a chart.  I am getting ready to respring my bike, there is not a shop in my area I would trust with this so I will be trying it myself.  Would just droping one spot from race techs recomended street spring be the right way to go?

[ducpainter]

Is there another chart that is more accurate on the spring sugestions?  I checked Traxxion & ohlins & was not able to find a chart.  I am getting ready to respring my bike, there is not a shop in my area I would trust with this so I will be trying it myself.  Would just droping one spot from race techs recomended street spring be the right way to go?

How much do you weigh?

[scott_araujo]

FWIW, I just redid my forks with RaceTech springs a few weeks ago.  They don't list an 800 Dark so I plugged the numbers in for 750 and 900, aggressive street riding.  One came up around .90 and one came up .95 so I went with .95.  I like the fork and it's working much better.  I also swapped the oil to 5W for faster damping.  It dosn't have that horrible brake dive and tracks well over ruts and bumps in corners, the two problems I was most looking to correct.  I really like the way it feels but it may be just a tad stiff and a little too quick.  I'll probably trim a few mm off the fork spacers in the coming weeks and maybe add a little 7.5W oil to the 5W, like a 1:3 mix.  For being 195 I would say the .9 or .85 springs are in your neighborhood, probably .9 if it were me but I hate soggy suspension.

Scott

[ducpainter]

FTR...I run .85 front and a 10.0 rear.

I weigh 180 in street clothes