First time doing a valve check - Is this normal?

[scott_araujo]

Harbor Freight Tools sells an inexpensive set of long forceps.  Long enough that they flex and hold the valve before they snap.  Like I said, tape or heat shrink tubing to keep them from scratching things.
I think the CA Cycle Works video shows a modded plastic set, could prolly find 'em at a surgical supply store. 

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94952

Scott

[Paegelow]

I saw those there.  I thought they would be way too big so I got the small ones.  Well they were way too small!  The plastic ones in the video look like just the right thing

[brad black]

if it has noopening clearance nad lots of closing clearance them the collets have worn a lot (unlikely), the valves are receding in to the head or the heads are pulling off the valves.  which they really never seem to do.

pull the belts.  i can't imagine trying to do this with the belts on.  you can push the valves out with the piston too, even when the tip has dropped below the top of the guide.  you just need to be gentle and override the urge to scream lots and then hit shit with a hammer. 

push down on the closing rocker (i use the end of teh valve - it's very easy) and slip a tapered pin punch or piece of bar, drill bit possibly, etc, around 12mm or so under the cam end of the rocker and it'll stay down.  turn the engine over until it gets to tdc and the piston should push the valve up.  if not wind the engine back a bit, push the valve down again a bit further and push the punch, etc, in further.  wind back toward tdc to lift the valve.  sometimes you won't get it to lift that much (exhausts) or they'll lift so far you can't get the shim off (inlets).  adjust crank position as required.

then the collets are exposed, get them out with a magnet and slide the shim off.  fit alternate shim, refit collets.  better if you look at the wear marks and refit them the way they were.  otherwise they'll just wear again and undo your adjustment.

occaisionally you have to file / rub the burrs off the valve stem or lever the shim off with a long screw driver.

once you've done it a few hundred times it becomes rather relaxing i find.  having a lot of shims on hand to check thru also helps.  doing it by swapping one at a time will be painful and drawn out unfortunately.  but if you have a kit you can choose and then order more of what you need.  you need an accurate measuring devic too, and one that measures in the acknowledged style.  if you measure and it doesn't match the listed ems size then your measuring system is wrong so to speak, as it's not the actual size that matters, it's the variation of what you have now to what you need and you have to order by the supplier's measuring convention.  make sure you get that sorted before trying to order shims.  and make sure you can work in metric, don't start asking for shims in thou.

generally i find models tend to have a certain shim range, and you run out of a certain size while building a stock of others.  openers of 4.00 - 4.50mm are rare to get out, but you often need 4.00 - 4.10.  st2 and 900ie often have 5.00 or larger openers (5.00 is the largest they officially make, figure that out) and i stock new closers in the range 6.95 - 7.25 because it's so rare to ever get them in a bike, but much more common to need them.

but then you'll get a run of late 800 or something and they're all around 6.5 closers or something like that.  and some others are all around 5.90 - 6.20.  wacky, but all to do with the different machining for each model.

taking the shims at the extremes of your shim kit into a dealer to trade is insulting to their intelligence.  if you tried that shit with me i'd tell you to stick your shims up your arse and make the beast with two backs off.

[EEL]

slip a tapered pin punch or piece of bar, drill bit possibly, etc, around 12mm or so under the cam end of the rocker and it'll stay down. 

An 8MM Allen will work too and usually a more common find in people's tool kits. Slip in the 90 degree short end. I use it all the time. Since it has a narrow profile, it doesnt interfere much with access when adjusting valves.

[Paegelow]

Alright!  My shims came in the mail today, so I'm making some progress.  Everything is starting to make sense 

I ended up taking the timing belts off, and that made everything MUCH easier, just like everyone said 

I did my vertical cylinder just now, but I think I made one of the openers too tight.  I could turn the cam, but there was a decent amount of resistance.  I wouldn't say 'binding' but it was harder to turn than what it looked like in the Ca-Cycleworks video.  Then again he said that closer was too loose.     I can turn the shim with my finger when I press the rocker arm down, but it was pretty hard to turn.  I'm thinking it's just a bit too tight.

I had a hard time figuring out which way to put the collets back in.  They looked the same on both sides, so I couldn't tell which side was up!

Other than that though, it's coming along now.   

Hopefully I can have it all done tomorrow morning.  I'm kind of sick so I don't feel like working on it all night!

[EEL]

I want to make sure your know how to check for binding on the closer so I'm going to clarify

To check closer binding properly you really need to have both intake and exhaust openers on each head shifted to the side.

are you doing that?

Then you spin the cam and feel for drag. If it sticks you will feel it. This is the right and best way to measure clearance. If you did it differently do it again.

When the drag on the cam dissappears, you should rotate the shim in 10 degree increments and spin the cam again just to check. When you can spin the shim one full turn without feeling any drag on the cam your closer is adjusted. No one can perfectly sand a shim flat. The variation will result in binding on one side and free spin on the other. Sand slowly and check often. You cant put material back on the shim once its gone.

Good luck

[Paegelow]

Yeah, I had both opener rockers moved to the side.  That all makes sense.  I'll check it out in the morning.  I'm pretty sure I made the intake closer a tiny bit too tight

[Paegelow]

Lunch break status update: the vertical cylinder is all done and perfect!  I think the other cylinder will go much faster now that I've pretty much figured it out 

[Paegelow]

Well I got it all done yesterday!  I haven't taken it out for a ride yet (crap weather) but I started it and let it run for a while and it seems to run fine.  So I guess I didn't mess anything up! 

In general, are the openers going to continue to get tighter, and the closers will get looser?

[ducpainter]

Well I got it all done yesterday!  I haven't taken it out for a ride yet (crap weather) but I started it and let it run for a while and it seems to run fine.  So I guess I didn't mess anything up! 

In general, are the openers going to continue to get tighter, and the closers will get looser?

Not to the degree you just experienced. As things wear in that will happen to a small degree. It also pretty much stops changing much at all at about 18K. There are lots of variables that can affect it.

If you put the half rings back in the same way they came out they, the closers, won't change much, or shouldn't. If you flipped them, the closers are already about a thou looser than you set them.

[Paegelow]

Well I finally got out today for a ride, and it looks like everything is working fine!

Would there even be any indicators that I did something wrong?  I didn't detect any noises that weren't there at least (I think) 

[skoobeesnak]

Did your bike run any different / or better since you adjusted your valves?

[Paegelow]

Not that I can really detect *shrug*