S2R 800 clutch damage

[Lord_Bragle]

I looked at the service manual caperix, and noted the washer under the clutch centre nut, it's notched for splines and like you say it's not a tab type lock washer. Yet the manual calls it a “Safety Washer” !

What I'm wondering is, if this nut coming loose is the actual cause of the Cush Drive failures or not? It looks like the springs in the Cush Drive break up and then escape from their housings jamming between primary drive and engine casing.

If on inspection (when I get round to having a look) it turns out that the Cush on my bike is starting to disintegrate I will have to make a decision whether to use the bike or not, and if it did need replacing, I believe its expensive 1500ish maybe.

[caperix]

I do not have any FHE with the failure, at 30,000 miles mine was ok when I swaped it out.  My '04 did not have the spring hub in the basket like the S2r's with the failure have.  Dave said he was informed that the clutch basket nut comming loose is the cause.  The saftey washer on the APTC does not appear to have any way of locking the nut, nothing had to be done to it to remove the nut.

[Dave328]

Looking at the design of the APTC slipper, and how it functions, I wonder if just repeated normal operation of the slipper function is what causes the nut to loosen. You don't hear of this problem with the earlier non-slipper wet clutches. Also the 800SS clutch assy I put in had no type of "lock washer". It was simply a flat washer identical to the one that came off of the stock APTC. I think I'm going to put another 100 miles or so on it, then pull the cover and check to torque on the nut just for the hell of it. I will admit to still being a little nervous riding, even though I know it has been rebuilt properly.

[rule62]

I bent the flat washer, on my 800SS clutch swap, around the nut.

[CairnsDuc]

Thread locker?

[Dave328]

Thread locker?

Absolutely,positively when it went back together! Factory manual says to use grease on the threads.  Mine got good 'ol Loctite Red!

[jim_0068]

well i'm in the market for an S2R and this thread has spooked me enough to if i find/buy 1 i'm going to threadlock that bolt for safety lol.

[CairnsDuc]

How hard is it to pull the wet clutch apart to get access to this nut?

I have my 24000 km service coming up soon, I figure while I'm pulling everything apart I may as well check this nut, what size nut is it? I have a 1 meter long 1/2 inch driver bar, will this get me enough force to check the tension on the nut?

[ducpainter]

How hard is it to pull the wet clutch apart to get access to this nut?

I have my 24000 km service coming up soon, I figure while I'm pulling everything apart I may as well check this nut, what size nut is it? I have a 1 meter long 1/2 inch driver bar, will this get me enough force to check the tension on the nut?

Not hard.

You'll need a holding tool, and you really should torque the nut if you're going in there.

[CairnsDuc]

So, please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm looking at the S2R service manual, to gain access to the nut.

I only have to remove the 6 spring retaining bolts, caps and springs, remove the pressure plate.
and the nut should be right there under the pressure plate?
(sorry the pictures I have in the service manual are a low resolution so not very clear)

How would be the best way to secure the clutch so it does not spin or move while trying to tighten the nut? I found this Tool on Ca Cycleworks, would this be fine to hold the clutch? I was also thinking I'll put the bike in 6th gear and hold the rear brake

Standard right hand thread?

Size of the nut in question?

All going to plan I will do this as part of the bikes service, I will make a tutorial topic so others can do it as well.

[ducpainter]

Yup...don't forget to remove the side cover or you may have issues finding the other stuff.

ca-cycleworks sells a tool for holding the hub.

It is r/h thread. I don't know the nut size.

[CairnsDuc]

Yup...don't forget to remove the side cover or you may have issues finding the other stuff.

That explains why I can't find the clutch.....


I assume I won't need the 3 special Ducati bolts?
I am not removing the clutch pack or removing the nut, I may just move the nut out on the thread, apply some thread locker and tighten up again.

[Dave328]

I used a 32mm impact socket on my big honkin Ingersol Rand!

[Lord_Bragle]

The Cush-Drive on my bikes fine.  Take a look at the pics. There's three thick springs that sit loose within their housings and three weaker ones that sit more tightly, it looks like the thicker ones take up the more excessive shocks and impacts after the lighter springs have done their job.  The whole thing looks in perfect condition, and the APTC bits look to be well thought out and nicely engineered.

The centre nut was tight, so this is confirming the “Loose Clutch Centre Nut” theory being the reason for Cush-Drive failure; well with what's being observed in the case with my bike it's being confirmed anyway!

The bikes done 15000ish miles with one-track day, I try to ride it smoothly.

I have a question, what is the difference between red and blue Locktight? Also I'm not so sure Locktight is even going to be effective in this application… Prob is that the primary shaft is splined, so instead of the compound being buried deep betwixt threads of nut and shaft -like for example mortar buried deep within walls of a building… it will be in a point contact like situation between these raised lands of the spline's and the thread of the nut.  Might one type of compound work better than the other?

[CairnsDuc]

Would I be correct in thinking that if the Cush drive was being damaged, that pieces of Metal would show up on the Sump plug? I change my oil every 3000 km. and the amount of metal on the Sump plug is very minimal (normal wear and tear)