To tire warm, or not to tire warm, that is the ?

[GregP]

Can anyone give me an idea of how much more life you get out of a set of tires when you use tire warmers?  Are we talking about double the life or just an extra session?

Can you give me an idea of how many track days you get out of a set of tires as well?

I have slicks on my supermotard and they just keep on sticking heat cycle after heat cycle.  I'm looking at getting a set of track day wheels/tires for my SV and I know the wear is going to be much more severe.

This is based on track day only.

Thanks

[derby]

tire wear and duration aside, they're worth it for the piece of mind of not having to go out on cold tires.

[fasterblkduc]

Race tires can't do as many heat cycles as street tires. Warmers keep the number of cycles to a minimum. Yes, you will get much more life if you keep them on warmers after you have them warmed up. As Derby said also, they will be warm when you go onto the track, and you will have peace of mind. I will just add one comment to that, unless you are gridding up to race, you don't need warm tires. Taking a couple warm up laps is just fine. In fact, going out on a flying lap right away is just plain stupid. There are no trophies given away at a trackday.

I'm not sure of your track experience but I would like to give you some practical advice. If you are still pretty new to trackdays, just put on some good sport tires. You won't be riding hard enough to need race tires, and you will get a lot more miles before the rear starts sliding. Again, I don't know your experience/skill level but that's what I tell newer riders just getting into trackdays. 

As far as life of the tire, that depends on a few factors...the bike, bike set up, tire pressure, how hard you ride it, and tire brand/model. If you ride fast on your SV 650, have your pressure towards the high end, and use Dunlop race tires with warmers, then you should get at least a couple of trackdays out of the rear.(I race with Dunlops because they last longer, and are very predictable when they start to lose grip), The 209 is a great race tire, and lasts a while.
Hope this helps 

[gm2]

unless you are gridding up to race, you don't need warm tires.

not true.

Taking a couple warm up laps is just fine. In fact, going out on a flying lap right away is just plain stupid.

very true.

i never go out on warmed tires thinking they are completely up to temp.  warmers just can't do that.  but they sure as hell help.

[GregP]

Thanks for the info guys.

Fasterblkduc,

Great info thanks.  I'm an experienced track rider running in the B Group.  I'm not out there to set world records just have some fun and not get hurt.

I guess what I'm trying to gauge, and I know this is an oxymoron, is how I can minimize funds spent on tires as it relates to track days.

When I used to take my street bike out on Power Pilots (street) it would pretty much cut the tire life in half.  I'd get about 3k out of a set.  So I figued, have my street tires last the 6-7K they should and get some track oriented tires on a secong set of wheels and hopefully get 4-5 days out of a set.  This would obviously require tire warmers as you all are getting two days out of set.  I'll assume that GM2 runs much faster and harder then me so I should be ok with my calculations.

If not, it's just more money I spent on my scooter.  That's never a bad thing!

[tufty]

unless you are gridding up to race, you don't need warm tires.

Hmm! Having had a cold tire lowside at moderate pace on a track I'd have to disagree.

Evrything else I whole heartedly agree with.

[atomic410]

Having race tires and warmers gives you a better sence of feel for the bike.  Race tires may not last as long as your street tires but they are better feeling on the track and tire warmes insure that you are going to get the most out of your tires.  If you feel better about the bike and it's grip then it's safer for you and everyone else on the track.  I would buy them. my 2cent

[gm2]

greg, you're about right.  i've never tried to calculate it but i think that using them would get an extra full day or two out of your tires.  plus, you get to shop for a generator... 

tufty, same thing happened to me a couple months ago.  brand new, cold tires.  and i knew it; i was tip-toeing.  still lowsided on T3 of my first lap... of a two-day event.  i was cornerworking so couldn't use the warmers.  bike was just broken enough that i couldn't ride it the rest of the weekend.  argh.

If you feel better about the bike and it's grip then it's safer for you and everyone else on the track.  I would buy them. my 2cent

amen!

[fasterblkduc]

Guys, it's not rocket science here. If you don't have warmers, then you take a couple of laps to warm up your tires. If you went out on cold tires and lowsided, then you did not warm them up. I would rather give practical advice to someone that may be on a budget and choose not to ride because people on the internet told them that they have to spend lots of money on stuff that they don't HAVE to buy.
Seat time is more valuable than buying warmers, then sitting at home because you can't afford to do the trackday...C'mon guys, you're smarter than this.

Bottom line...warmers allow you to go faster on your first lap because your tires are warm. If you don't have them, just take a couple of warm up laps. It's only a trackday, and you will not win! If you are racing then it is an absolute necessity, but NOT necessary at a trackday. If you can afford them for your trackday bike, awesome! Buy them!

Seems pretty simple to me.

[gm2]

i agree with everything you just said.  yes, you can just skip the whole thing and do 2-3 warm-up laps. 

yes, when i lowsided, i knew exactly why it happened, thanks. 


however, earlier you said, "unless you are gridding up to race, you don't need warm tires."   I guess we could argue the subjectivity of "need" all day long.. but if you have the option, warm is better.  fewer heat cycles is better.  and greater confidence, especially, is better.  i don't think anyone said they are necessary.  just that they are... better.

[zooom]

okay then....lets turn the discussion a bit then...which warmers would you get?...Chicken Hawk? Tomahawk? or what? and what set-up would you use if you didn't have a shore power(ie: a provided by facility 110V socket) source for electricity?

[gm2]

chicken hawks are kinda standard.  i have some DWPs, on which all the velcro straps keep breaking .  i've heard great things about the Woodcrafts.  i'll probably get those next.

this is actually the point where i start to sound more like fasterblkduc.  it sorta doesn't matter.. you don't need uber warmers.  warm is warm; use something and then go easy'ish on the first lap.  i don't have multi-temp or digital control wamers; i'm just doing track days.

for power, i use a honda EU2000i generator.  i've never been to a track that offered power in the pits.

[tufty]

chicken hawks are kinda standard.  i have some DWPs, on which all the velcro straps keep breaking .  i've heard great things about the Woodcrafts.  i'll probably get those next.

this is actually the point where i start to sound more like fasterblkduc.  it sorta doesn't matter.. you don't need uber warmers.  warm is warm; use something and then go easy'ish on the first lap.  i don't have multi-temp or digital control wamers; i'm just doing track days.

for power, i use a honda EU2000i generator.  i've never been to a track that offered power in the pits.

Ah BOLLOCKS!! I just ordered a set of DWP's!!! shit, shit, shit, shit!!!
My Powerstands Racing crapped out already.

[DanTheMan]

for power, i use a Honda EU2000i generator.  I've never been to a track that offered power in the pits.

That's pretty much the standard generator to use. Quiet and enough power. There are cheaper ones with more power, but your neighbors wont like you too much, meaning they are very loud. You pay more for the Honda cause its quiet.

Ive never used tire warmers at all for racing or trackdays. but i was on a smaller HP bike so i wasn't demanding as much from my tires as a 1000 would. My 209's lasted for daaaaays, changed them mostly out of guilt. Then i'd swap the front to back and use the for a few more days.

[zooom]

Ah BOLLOCKS!! I just ordered a set of DWP's!!! shit, shit, shit, shit!!!
 

go to the fabric store and get more Velcro then in preparation!