M600 Performance Upgrades? (Big-Bore Kits? Engine Swaps?)

[Grug]

Hey Guys,

It's slowly starting to dawn on me that the amount of money I'm spending on my 600 is unlikely to be very recoupable once I'm off restrictions and want to sell the bike. So now I'm considering my options for raising the performance of the bike (which I'm already starting to find a tad lackluster).

I heard about the 680cc big bore kits that you can get from crowds like Fast By Ferucci, do they lift the bike's performance notably? And how would a big-bored 600 compare to something like a straight swap of a M900 or 900SS motor? It's around $1000 for a big-bore kit, I'm not sure how much a 900cc engine for a swap would cost.

Are there any other possible modifications to consider for bringing my bike into a higher class of performance? Also, how noticable is the step-up in performance from a M600 to a M900?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

Mark

[scduc]

Not sure about prices, but one of the options are to buy a bigger bike outright. You probably will find it cheaper to cut your losses and find a good used ride that has not been modded too heavily. Now, I have an S2R 1K and have been thinking the same way. (would be nice to swap with in S4R motor). I just dont think it would make much financial sense. But I do like my bike and do not want to get rid of her for someone elses.

[minnesotamonster]

IMO you'd be better off just selling and buying a bigger bike, or swapping in a 900 motor. Once the funds allow, I'm going to have to make that decision myself.

[teddy037.2]

IIRC, the 800's are like overbored 750's.... and the bottom end is the same for everything >900.

don't quote me on this, but I imagine you can get about that far just by tinkering w/the cylinders 

it ain't cheap, but it can be fun!

[Grug]

I would normally just sell the 600 and cover the difference for something like the 900, the thing is, down here the difference is something in the range of $2,000-$3,000 at which point the idea of swapping the engine (and probably adding a 2nd disc brake to the front) is probably the cheaper option by a fair margin.

Although actually finding a 900 engine to use for the swap is probably going to prove a fair bit of trouble in and of itself. Does anyone know what sort of a difference in performance the big bore kits for the 600 make? At least getting hold of that kit is a simple matter.

[sydmonster]

i fitted a 900 (904 from a SS) to my M600. Its a massive change, the 33% increase in displacement is VERY obvious, but so is the 6th gear & dry clutch.
There is Positives & Negs,
pos is
- large power increase, its considerable. Much more than what i expected, Think of it about a 30% increase, it is really that noticeable.
- 6th gear, makes it an easier bike to ride in the open stuff. something i felt lacking in the 600.
- wheelies are silly easy, even in 3rd. (mind you i weigh only 65Kg)

negs
- the bike is heavier, not enough to say its a pain, but you do notice it when "on it" in turns. So flickability is lost by about 5%, but you gain more than that in the power delivery
- The dry clutch beleive it or not, while the rattle and bling is good. its not as nice to use to or feel as the wet.
- uses more fuel

hope that helps.

[ab]

I had the bore-kit done this past winter  (ebay and ferracci bore kit).   I love the change as I can not afford to get another bike.  Anyhow, She got more pep now for sure. The top-end HP gain was negligible but the mid range did increase when compared the results of the dyno results before the change. 
Here is an email excerpt I received from my mechanic last winter as that may shed some light better than I can explain or even understand it

""...I need to run it more on
> the dyno just to give a final check, waiting on warmer weather. However
> this chart gives you an idea of the gains. The peak number is not all
> that different, only a couple hp, however in the middle it is +8-12hp,
> which you will really notice when accelerating. The high rpm gains are
> less because the 620's camshafts are short-duration and won't let it
> breath at high rpm with 750cc's. Basically the ports are starting to
> choke at about 8500 rpm and it is done making power. But that's ok
> because this is a street bike not a racer. I compared it to my old
> carbureted M750 and it actually makes a lot more power than that one
> did.
"

[Grug]

Thanks guys, Sydmonster how much did the 900 engine cost you? I've just heard from my mechanic on another forum that they usually run about $3,000 down here (which sounds ridiculous) but at that price there isn't really much difference between swapping the engine and simply selling the bike and buying the bigger bike.

[sydmonster]

Thanks guys, Sydmonster how much did the 900 engine cost you? I've just heard from my mechanic on another forum that they usually run about $3,000 down here (which sounds ridiculous) but at that price there isn't really much difference between swapping the engine and simply selling the bike and buying the bigger bike.

Im from Sydney Australia mate, so not sure how relevant the price is. I paid $2300aus for a 25,000K used unit out of a dropped 900SS. (They swap in pretty easy).
Hope that helps.
To do a comparison, my 900SS machine feels like a S2R1000 in power, but not as smooth.

[weemonster]

erm no 3k for a 900 engine is ridiculous slap the bloke who told you that.

I'm in the same boat at you spent a fair bit on the 600 and intend on just upping the power rather than buying a new bike.

So what i dug up sp far.
option 1  620 heads and 750 jets in the carbs. the cheapest route. with option to add a big bore kit too.
A lighter flywheel  aswell.
i'd do all this myself and hopefully manage it for $600

Option 2 is a 900 motor
for the motor and carbs i'd be looking around $1200 tops.

Its cheaper to loose weight than add power.

[Raux]

in my opinion and Colin Chapman's... lighter is better.
focus on weight reduction and power delivery and make your 600 into a corner carving monster no pun intended

[caperix]

Brad Black has a post on his site about this mod, http://bikeboy.org/600monto680.html.  750 cylinders are another option though I don't know what pistons would work with the shorter 600 stroke.  600's also have very small valve cyl. heads that may limit your gains.
Ducati does have great parts compadability as all air & water cooled twins share a common design.

[brad black]

erm no 3k for a 900 engine is ridiculous slap the bloke who told you that.

I'm in the same boat at you spent a fair bit on the 600 and intend on just upping the power rather than buying a new bike.

So what i dug up sp far.
option 1  620 heads and 750 jets in the carbs. the cheapest route. with option to add a big bore kit too.
A lighter flywheel  aswell.
i'd do all this myself and hopefully manage it for $600

Option 2 is a 900 motor
for the motor and carbs i'd be looking around $1200 tops.

Its cheaper to loose weight than add power.

i'm the person who said that, based on my local australian experience, so you can come and slap me if you like.  i also told mark to call around and see if he could find an engine and then he'd know for sure.  sydmonster says $2300, sounds about right dependant on who has what at the time and what extras it comes with.  if you're not in australia then the prices people ask for motors here will seem much higher than in the usa.

620 heads will just give you a very low compression 600.  marks is a late model bike so 750 cylinders will fit, but the pistons will be 1.75mm too far down the bore, and no one makes 58mm stroke 88mm pistons afaik, altho 695 pistons might work.  lot of work for that much capacity tho - it's only 706cc.  if we got a late 900 crank and some 800 big bore pistons we could get it up to 850cc or so, but there'd be at least 30 hours in time to do it all right, plus crank, pistons, different heads, etc.  that's a lot of money.

overall, it'd be a much better idea to get rid of it imo, especially as locally the 600 is now lams approved, meaning you can ride it as a first bike - previously it was a 250cc limit.  it makes them worth more on the s/h market.