Rossi Stoner 2007-2008 CURRENT RESULTS with prior year comparison SPOILER

[derby]

Stoner is classic Kevin Schwantz.  He rides the hell out of that bike and he pushes it to the absolute limit.  Unfortunately, a lot of the time, he also goes past the limit and ends up crashing.  He got his title, he MAY get one more, but he'll never be a Doohan, a Rossi, or a Rainey because he simply can't control himself.

 

[Jester]

Stoner is classic Kevin Schwantz.  He rides the hell out of that bike and he pushes it to the absolute limit.  Unfortunately, a lot of the time, he also goes past the limit and ends up crashing

Going back to my opinions on Stoner, and Cowboy's response that age and experience will ultimately temper Stoner's riding style.  If Stoner tempers his style, then he falls back those tenths to the other front runners, i.e. Rossi, Pedrosa, Lorenzo, etc.  At that point, I don't think he comes out of the battles often enough to take championships.  His approach is, "well I'll just go faster and they won't catch me."  There is only so far you can push the bike.

Stoner's greatest gift is his ability to turn what I loosely term qualifying pace for an entire race.  Qualifying pace is run on the ragged edge.  High risk, high reward.  I think he maintains his style, but it will also be the reason he'll never ascend to true greatness.  He'll be looked back upon as "damn that dude was fast, but could have done so much more with his talent."

My 2 cent pieces.

[COWBOY]

Going back to my opinions on Stoner, and Cowboy's response that age and experience will ultimately temper Stoner's riding style.  If Stoner tempers his style, then he falls back those tenths to the other front runners, i.e. Rossi, Pedrosa, Lorenzo, etc.  At that point, I don't think he comes out of the battles often enough to take championships.  His approach is, "well I'll just go faster and they won't catch me."  There is only so far you can push the bike.

Stoner's greatest gift is his ability to turn what I loosely term qualifying pace for an entire race.  Qualifying pace is run on the ragged edge.  High risk, high reward.  I think he maintains his style, but it will also be the reason he'll never ascend to true greatness.  He'll be looked back upon as "damn that dude was fast, but could have done so much more with his talent."

My 2 cent pieces.

lets not get crazy here.  I said temper it down not roll off the throttle.  What I meant was he'll learn to manage his races and improve his racecraft.   For instance, when you're up by 3 plus seconds with half the race left you need to maintain your already killer pace not find another .3 by pushing it. 

One thing that's certainly changed is at least y'all are acknowledging that the kid can ride like a bat out of hell as opposed to claiming he's along for the ride.  LOL.

Hardly a Hayden championship. Rossi won 7 so far, and Hayden in 06? Apple and oranges my friend.

Right year wrong perspective/argument, LOL.  It has more to do with being defaulted wins as opposed to being the fastest rider. (ie Rossi/Hayden 06).

[darylbowden]

[

One thing that's certainly changed is at least y'all are acknowledging that the kid can ride like a bat out of hell as opposed to claiming he's along for the ride.  LOL.

I don't think that was ever a question.  Everyone knows the kid can ride like hell, but that doesn't mean his bike/tires combo wasn't MUCH better than many others on the grid as well (talking last year here) - they aren't mutually exclusive.

However, while he may be a great rider, he has yet to prove that he's a very good racer.  When he can win going away he's fine, when he has to battle we've seen what happens. 

If he can somehow pull himself back off the ledge just enough so that he isn't crashing, but not so much that he can't keep up and then also learn some better racecraft, he has a chance to win some more. 

Do I think he can do all that?  No.  He'll win races, MAYBE another championship, but no more than that (which is still a hell of an accomplishment by any means).

[gm2]

One thing that's certainly changed is at least y'all are acknowledging that the kid can ride like a bat out of hell as opposed to claiming he's along for the ride. 

"we" acknowledged that many, many times.

[COWBOY]

I love revisionist history.   

it's all good at least you are getting there.  for a little insight into how the paddock views his skills (in line with most on the edge comments here) watch the video on nickyhayeden.com where he talks about teaming up with Casey.  "nobody can ride the edge longer or better than Casey.  Yeah it bites him sometimes, but he certainly gets the most out of the bike."   Go to around the 40 second mark of the 4th clip here http://www.nickyhayden.com/index.cfm/p/video

yeah, i don't see a Doohan type legacy (5 titles) but tying Rainey (3 titles) is a possibility.

Of course in 2009 he'll have to first beat Nicky, yo.  <hat too big smiley inserted >

[darylbowden]

I love revisionist history.   

How is that revisionist?  Do you really need me to quote all of the times it has been stated (IN THIS VERY THREAD EVEN!) ?

I understand that you need to have someone to try and make look like the bad guy, but right now your credibility is up there with Ken Lay.

[gm2]

I love revisionist history.   

i know this is all in good fun-poking... but show me, here or TOB, where i ever said it was strictly


...oh, nevermind.     

i'm also super excited about nicky.  Marco agrees, too.

[COWBOY]

How is that revisionist?  Do you really need me to quote all of the times it has been stated (IN THIS VERY THREAD EVEN!) ?

I understand that you need to have someone to try and make look like the bad guy, but right now your credibility is up there with Ken Lay.

credibility? bad guys?  make the beast with two backs dude you looking for someone on the grassy knoll???   

[darylbowden]

credibility? bad guys?  make the beast with two backs dude you looking for someone on the grassy knoll???   

In order for you to play your role of "good guy," you need a "bad guy" or you would just be a "guy." 

Credibility in that your arguments, while I may not agree with them sometimes, are at least based in reality (for the most part ).  When you make shit up, it makes people like me, who enjoy bench racing with you, just kinda deflated and it loses the enticement for dialogue.  Kinda like "what's the point if he's gonna beat a horse that died 1.5 years ago?"

[COWBOY]

In order for you to play your role of "good guy," you need a "bad guy" or you would just be a "guy." 

Credibility in that your arguments, while I may not agree with them sometimes, are at least based in reality (for the most part ).  When you make shit up, it makes people like me, who enjoy bench racing with you, just kinda deflated and it loses the enticement for dialogue.  Kinda like "what's the point if he's gonna beat a horse that died 1.5 years ago?"

If we're role playing let me tell you right now in no uncertain terms I am not playing the role of the nurse, french maid or towel boy...  you're on your own there.

I will also always be the "guy" so ........   

OK serious face now......LOL

As far as credibility and being deflated.

1.  "revisionist history"  was tongue in cheek hence the laughter..   
2.  the first comment "bat out of hell" was a real comment acknowledging that many (didn't name names so if you feel slighted there look in the mirror first -- you did call him an amazing rider on page 1 right?) have come a long way in how they view the "lucky SOB."  Shows that there is a capacity for growth and evolution of thought on DMF - who'd have thought 
3.  If you don't beat a dead horse you'll never make glue.  

Lighten up man.  You're favorite rider has all but clinched the Championship.  The most popular American rider is now on our favorite brand of bike.  You have much to be happy about.  If the glass isn't half full for you right now then it will never be.

 

[darylbowden]

Lighten up man.  You're favorite rider has all but clinched the Championship.  The most popular American rider is now on our favorite brand of bike.  You have much to be happy about.  If the glass isn't half full for you right now then it will never be.

Not until Ben Spies is MotoGP champion on an Ilmor

[Pakhan]

Time to reminisce.....

http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/racing-track-days/177052-2008-motogp-predictions.html
http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/racing-track-days/183658-who-will-finish-higher-2008-motogp-championship-rossi-stoner.html

How did you compare?

http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/xx/last/MotoGP/world+standing.pdf

[darylbowden]

So, here was my prediction from that old thread:

I think they'll both be top 5, but I think it will be Rossi, Pedro, Lorenzo, Stoner, Hopkins. How's that for a prediction?

And here's reality as of now:

1.  Rossi
2.  Stoner
3.  Pedro
4.  Lorenzo
.
.
.
17.  Hopkins

So, I wasn't all THAT far off at all (except for Hopkins' pathetic ass - I shoulda known better than to ever trust in him) and if Stoner has surgery, there's a very good possibility I'll nail the top 4.  I rule.



On another note:  How am I a premium member over there?  I never was a titanium member and I haven't even logged in once since VS took over.

[Pakhan]

So, here was my prediction from that old thread:
And here's reality as of now:

1.  Rossi
2.  Stoner
3.  Pedro
4.  Lorenzo
.
.
.
17.  Hopkins

So, I wasn't all THAT far off at all (except for Hopkins' pathetic ass - I shoulda known better than to ever trust in him) and if Stoner has surgery, there's a very good possibility I'll nail the top 4.  I rule.



On another note:  How am I a premium member over there?  I never was a titanium member and I haven't even logged in once since VS took over.

What I find very funny is that I predicted JT would be doing better and you said he wouldn't make the TOP 11 and right now he's 12th