696 Lambda sensor issues......continue!

[be350ka]

Today on my ride home from work I got the check engine light 3 times.  I did catch the code at a stop sign and it was "lamb"......again.  This is not a new issue as I have had this happen in the past and one of the O2 sensors was replaced under warranty.  But, it is back again.  The check engine light used to stay on for about 15 seconds and then extinguish and it would only happen once every 15-20 rides.  Now is seems to be coming on more frequently with longer illumination times.  So, what the eff is going on here?   I have noticed that the OAT reading has been WAY high over the past few months since the oil cooler has been installed and I am getting some "coughing" through the airbox.  Something is up and it is really p!ssing me off. 

The bike has 3,100 miles and it has the DP oil cooler and Termis.  These are the only changes that have been made to the bike that could possibly affect what is going on.......right?  Also, I have noticed some surging with the bike.  Not surging like people experienced with the coil issue, but from closed throttle to a small amount of throttle the bike is kind of jerky.  Almost like it is having problems with fueling.

Is this all related?  Is the inaccurate OAT reading from the oil cooler location and its proximity to the OAT sensor?  Is the "coughing" a result of the lambda sensor(s) going bad?  Is is all running lean due to the termis, crappy lambda system, and what ever else may be going on?

Thanks for any help as this is really starting to drive me crazy.  I am dropping it off at the dealer tomorrow and asking that it not be returned until it is fixed COMPLETELY.   Even if that means for the rest of the year, but that is how fed up I am with this thing.

Thinking out loud here.......at what point does the lemon law kick in?  Same problems, several times.

One thing to note... the bike runs well at higher speeds and while cruising on the highway. It is just the low speed and "closed to slightly open throttle" performance that is pure garbage.  Well, that and the coughing and, well you get the picture.

[Raux]

check all the wiring from your sensors. i think there's a recall about some sitting too close to the cylinder head. and i noticed others too close to exhaust pipes. i woudl start there. or better yet, let the shop start there. it's under warranty.

[Bladecutter]

There's an odd coincidence.
Your bike is having the exact same symptoms as my gf's 696.

For her bike, it actually just started happening a couple weeks ago after the shop did the recall on changing the position of the rear O2 sensor's wiring location. We were heading up to the bike shop to do something, and her CEL came on. I looked at the readout and it said lamda sen.

The shop looked at the bike initially, said the code just needed to be cleared, and sent us on our way.
About 5 miles later, the light came back on, we turned around, and told them to try again.
They then placed both O2 sensors on order, and told us to take the bike back home, and they will let us know when they came back in.

A couple days later, their tech calls us up, and asks if we can bring the bike back to them, so that they can test the bike more thoroughly, as DNA must have not liked the idea of them just throwing parts at the bike.

On the Tuesday that I was planning on bringing the bike to their shop, I first took the bike out for a ride to see what was happening when the light came on. First thing I did, just out of curiosity, was to change the trip meter over to the Air Temp reading. Before starting the bike, it said 62 degrees, which is what the weather was.

On my test ride, as I was cruising up the highway at about 70 mph, the Air Temp was slowly climbing.
In a couple miles, it was all the way at 98 degrees. On the way back, it said it was 105!
I knew right then and there that something was wrong with that.

I got back home, pulled out the 696 owners manual, and shop manual, and looked for the location of the Air Temp sensor.
Turns out, its in the Intake runner, between the air box, and the Vertical Cylinder's Throttle Body.
Since it's in the air stream, there is no way for your oil cooler to be the cause of the incorrect reading.

The air enters the airbox through the vents in the fake tank panels.

So when I brought the bike to the dealer, I mentioned the air temp reading to them, and they said that they would take a look at that sensor during their tests.

When I talked to them the next day, they did in fact confirm that the air temp sensor is giving out faulty readings, and because the air temp is being reported wrong, the computer tells the injectors to fire off xxx amount of fuel.
After the fuel gets burned, the O2 sensors report that there's xxx amount of oxygen in the exhaust.
Because of the bad reading from the air sensor, the Computer can't adjust the mixture to the point where it wants it to be at, so it then throws a code, saying that the O2 sensors readings can't be true.

So, have your shop test the air temp sensor, and see if it's bad.
The one for my gf's bike just arrived at the shop today, so I will take her bike back there tomorrow to have it installed, and see if that cures the issue.

Also, for this 696, the issue started before we installed the oil cooler.
That day we were just randomly going to the shop when the light came on for the first time was the day that the oil cooler arrived.

BC.

[ada722]

Please keep us posted as my 696 (w/termis & ~2200mi) started exhibiting the same issue (intermittent CEL due to lamba sensor) approx 3 weeks ago.  I took my bike to the dealer immediately after the first occurrence, and they confirmed an O2 sensor fault.  After making an adjustment or reset (sorry, don't remember) I was sent on my merry way.  I continue to get an intermittent CEL so I'll have my dealer check my air temp sensor.

[Bladecutter]

Please keep us posted as my 696 (w/termis & ~2200mi) started exhibiting the same issue (intermittent CEL due to lamba sensor) approx 3 weeks ago.  I took my bike to the dealer immediately after the first occurrence, and they confirmed an O2 sensor fault.  After making an adjustment or reset (sorry, don't remember) I was sent on my merry way.  I continue to get an intermittent CEL so I'll have my dealer check my air temp sensor.

Just toggle through to your air temp before you start your bike, and see what the reading is.
Then as you ride the bike, see if it shoots up to something ridiculous.

BC.

[ungeheuer]

There's an odd coincidence.
Your bike is having the exact same symptoms as my gf's 696.

For her bike, it actually just started happening a couple weeks ago after the shop did the recall on changing the position of the rear O2 sensor's wiring location. We were heading up to the bike shop to do something, and her CEL came on. I looked at the readout and it said lamda sen.

The shop looked at the bike initially, said the code just needed to be cleared, and sent us on our way.
About 5 miles later, the light came back on, we turned around, and told them to try again.
They then placed both O2 sensors on order, and told us to take the bike back home, and they will let us know when they came back in.

A couple days later, their tech calls us up, and asks if we can bring the bike back to them, so that they can test the bike more thoroughly, as DNA must have not liked the idea of them just throwing parts at the bike.

On the Tuesday that I was planning on bringing the bike to their shop, I first took the bike out for a ride to see what was happening when the light came on. First thing I did, just out of curiosity, was to change the trip meter over to the Air Temp reading. Before starting the bike, it said 62 degrees, which is what the weather was.

On my test ride, as I was cruising up the highway at about 70 mph, the Air Temp was slowly climbing.
In a couple miles, it was all the way at 98 degrees. On the way back, it said it was 105!
I knew right then and there that something was wrong with that.

I got back home, pulled out the 696 owners manual, and shop manual, and looked for the location of the Air Temp sensor.
Turns out, its in the Intake runner, between the air box, and the Vertical Cylinder's Throttle Body.
Since it's in the air stream, there is no way for your oil cooler to be the cause of the incorrect reading.

The air enters the airbox through the vents in the fake tank panels.

So when I brought the bike to the dealer, I mentioned the air temp reading to them, and they said that they would take a look at that sensor during their tests.

When I talked to them the next day, they did in fact confirm that the air temp sensor is giving out faulty readings, and because the air temp is being reported wrong, the computer tells the injectors to fire off xxx amount of fuel.
After the fuel gets burned, the O2 sensors report that there's xxx amount of oxygen in the exhaust.
Because of the bad reading from the air sensor, the Computer can't adjust the mixture to the point where it wants it to be at, so it then throws a code, saying that the O2 sensors readings can't be true.

So, have your shop test the air temp sensor, and see if it's bad.
The one for my gf's bike just arrived at the shop today, so I will take her bike back there tomorrow to have it installed, and see if that cures the issue.

Also, for this 696, the issue started before we installed the oil cooler.
That day we were just randomly going to the shop when the light came on for the first time was the day that the oil cooler arrived.

BC.

wow  great detective work 

[Bladecutter]

Well, I just got back from a very enjoyable test ride on my gf's 696 after the shop replaced the air temp sensor yesterday.
The check engine light is in fact off and staying off.

Now, I have another concern, however.
The air temp is still giving me bs readings as I ride the bike.

After a 15 mile ride one way on the highway at ~65 mph the whole way, stuck behind traffic, the air temp reading was right at 100 degrees. If I got into a patch of highway with no traffic in front of me, the air temp reading would drop down to 95 to 98 degrees, depending on how long there weren't any cars in front of me.

The bike started off at 64 degrees when I left the garage, and right now, back in the garage after a 57.3 mile ride, that took me up on twisty roads above Boulder, CO, after a 18 mile highway jaunt before and after the twisty stuff, the bike is now reporting 113 degrees after sitting in the garage for about 10 minutes, not running. My 848 that is sitting right next to it says the air temp is only 75 degrees.

So the check engine light is cured, but the false air temp readings is still happening.

Can anyone else with 696's ride their bike for about 20 miles, and let us know what your air temp reading says?
Or even just after a normal ride. The temp climbs up pretty quick on this bike.

BC.

[Howie]

The sensor is located in the intake tract and is affected by engine heat.

[Bladecutter]

The sensor is located in the intake tract and is affected by engine heat.

I'm sorry, but that isn't acceptable as an answer.
I could understand the temp increasing a couple degrees after sitting for a while, and then when getting on the highway, it drops back down to ambient, which is what is going through the airbox into the engine, but for me to be at highway speed, and the bike tell me its 105 degrees when its only 64 is ridiculous, AND it wasn't doing that before.

Also, if you have a 696, can you PLEASE ride your bike 15 miles, and see what the air temp was before you started the ride, and after the 15 miles? I want someone to tell me if their bikes report a more normal air temp, or if their bikes are also seeing the same issue.

BC.

[Bladecutter]

Wow!!  You ARE having the exact same issue.  My temp sensor was replaced today so I will see if things are better.  Stay tuned. 

Well, after a ride with my gf today on our two bikes, the CEL came back on on her bike.
Same LAMBDA sensor error message.
Bike is still showing ridiculous air temps.

Either the sensor we were given is also faulty, or there is a problem with either the O2 sensors, the MAP sensor, or the computer itself. I'm going to bring the bike back on Tuesday to have them look into it again.

BC.

[roggie]

Also, if you have a 696, can you PLEASE ride your bike 15 miles, and see what the air temp was before you started the ride, and after the 15 miles? I want someone to tell me if their bikes report a more normal air temp, or if their bikes are also seeing the same issue.

BC.

ok i didnt do this exact test but i just went out and looked at my air temp on the bike. its about 7:40pm here now, i got home about 2 hours ago from a 15 to 20 min ride from work. My bike sat all day in a covered parking deck in the shade, i would guess the air temp was about 80 deg when i left.

the actual air temp right now is 84. the bike is in the garage, a little cooler and the temp gage on the bike is reading 95 deg. 

def not 95 deg in the garage and the bike has been sitting for 2 hours... oh and its still reading two bars.

sounds like my sensor is jacked too??

[hcomp]

Okay, Here is the deal......


I have tested the 696 with both the DP oil cooler kit, my kit, and two other prototype kits....I have news for everyone on here....

THE OIL COOLER WILL AFFECT THE AIR TEMP READING....PERIOD..

I have had them on and off the bike for back to back testing the results =

When oil cooler is mounted air temp goes up...LOTS... With oil cooler off air temp indicates close to ambient.

The air temp sensor sits right behind the back of the oil cooler. The high temps mean one thing....The oil cooler is bleeding heat like crazy which is good. The one thing I would like to test is remounting the airtemp sensor somewhere else. I suppose I could start that test next week.  On last weekends ride, I was indicating 125 degrees F. The actual air temp was around 97 degrees.  I have been watching that data since we started testing back in December.

[Bladecutter]

Hey be350ka, have you had any good luck with your check engine light issue as of yet?
My gf's bike is still having the light come on, and we just picked the bike back up from Ducati on Saturday after they said that it was fixed, again.

Her bike sets off the check engine light at steady throttle at a constant speed.
Typically within 5 miles of leaving the shop.

So far, they have tried the following, with no success:

Simply resetting the light (major fail).

Replacing the air temp sensor.

Closed TB air screws, pinched 1 MAP sensor hose, and then balanced TBs using the Verboten Screw at 2k rpms, then set the air screws 1/2 turn out, adjusted idle to 1200 rpm using idle stop screw, reset TPS, and then balanced O2 sensor output using the air screws.

Redid the above procedure after that failed by venting one of the MAP sensor hoses to atmosphere instead of pinching it off like previously, and setting idle to 1100 rpms.

All of these issues started after the O2 sensor wiring position recall.

BC.

[Raux]

speaking of oil coolers.. anyone checked the air temp readings of the 1100 and where is the placement of the temp sensor on it?

[Bladecutter]

Well, the bike is back at the shop again today, where they told me they are going to do a huge diagnostics check list, which includes stuff like compression and leakdown tests, all on Ducati's dime.

Here's to hoping this gets the bike somewhere.

BC.