M696 7" Round Headlight Mod (Featuring Custom Oil Cooler)

[junior varsity]

people don't like change.   whether its a new monster design, new superbike design, new frame design, new coke flavor, etc.

[Roaduser]

its wierd that, cause when the new version of anything electronic comes out the sheep cant get enough of it, yet a new Ducati and the sheep whine and moan!?!

[Travman]

Your analogy is no good.  Electronics are quickly outdated and there is little to no emotional attachment to an iPod.  People do have emotional attachments to Ducatis and some of them are classics which are never outdated.

[NateNewThread]

Ok so I think I get it. Some people, instead of being content that everyone here is joined together by a commonality, need to justify that their Monster is better than others. Need to justify that they wouldn't even want the new one if it was available to them.

[xcaptainxbloodx]

Ok so I think I get it. Some people, instead of being content that everyone here is joined together by a commonality, need to justify that their Monster is better than others. Need to justify that they wouldn't even want the new one if it was available to them.

not really, when you make an entirely different bike that has vaguely similar lines to the previous generation people will split. Ive ridden pretty much every model of monster Ducati has made and I would say that the newest one is the most different ride to all of them. Then theres the fact that minus the profile of the tank and the basic lines of the trellis the bikes look completely different.

the fact that people DONT like the bike I think makes them less of a "sheep" in that they arent basing their choices on name alone.

[junior varsity]

well this is going way off track...

[NateNewThread]

I stopped reading at "entirely different bike".

[Roaduser]

Your analogy is no good.  Electronics are quickly outdated and there is little to no emotional attachment to an iPod.  People do have emotional attachments to Ducatis and some of them are classics which are never outdated.

the point i was meaning was that it isnt change ppl dont like. i think its more ppl being traditionalists with their bikes when it comes to the ducati name, especially with monsters it seems. id guess most of the new models go to ppl that are new to ducatis, but itll change if it isnt starting to already.

[xcaptainxbloodx]

I stopped reading at "entirely different bike".

tank, seat, suspension, motor, frame, swingarm, lighting, gauges, ergonomics... all massivly different than all previous generations. thats all I meant.

I should also re-iterate that im saying DIFFERENT not BETTER. old vs new isnt cut and dry on whats better,  but the new model is so different that falling in love with the old model and not liking the new one isnt linked to insecurity and the need to justify anything.


and in an effort to get this back on track, I dig the round light on the new style. the reason the fairing looks bad is that huge gap between the gauges/fairing and the headlight.  try a bigger light (old monster lights are 7.5") or try lowering the gauges and raising the light a small amount. awesome work!

[junior varsity]

tank, seat, suspension, motor, frame, swingarm, lighting, gauges, ergonomics... all massivly different than all previous generations.

nope on those three. 
- same general seat scheme - biposto with a removable cowl to cover passenger section;
- same general ergonomics - seat, rearsets, & 1-piece handlebar w/ central riser configuration are traditional for standards (""nakeds""),
- the 2v belt driven desmodromic motor is still incredibly unchanged since the dawn of the belt era and ye olde ducati 750. 

Here's a fapworthy specimen, which is far louder than any of the modern production bikes I've heard, regardless of exhaust manufacturer



To view 696/796/1100 as being different solely because of the packaging would be to find no common ground from the earlier models either - The 94-01 models differ from each other and differ from the 01-02 S4, which differs from the 02-07 DSS models, again different from the S2R800s, differing from the S2R1000, and different from S4R, which is different from S4RS and different from S4Rt.  Ordering parts for any model requires particularity.

From the beginning, there was lots of differences even. the 900 was the first motor, which was dry clutch, big crank, air cooled. the first 750 monsters were pantah engines with wet clutch, small crank, and the slave cylinder is on the RH side of the motor rather than the left. The 800 motor is a hybrid advance of both the earlier 750 and 900, and the 1000 is yet another revision. The revisions to the newest generation, motorwise, are only mere revisions.   The monster has air cooled, air-oil cooled, water cooled, air-oil + water cooled, 2 valve heads, 4 valve heads, testastretta 4v heads, oddity frenchy 3-valve heads, various oil cooler shapes, wet clutches, dry clutches, LH hydraulic slave cylinders, RH hydraulic slave cylinders, clip-on style handlebars (S4), 22mm handlebars with risers, tapered handlebars with risers, different triple clamps, different headstock steering angles, different triple clamp offsets, different forks, different calipers (no fewer than 5 different front calipers), different rotors, different seats, different wheels, different fueling setups, and just about every other component has changed as well.

packaging? sure - that's new.  Tank, who's shape is relatively similar to previous models, now has panels so its quick and easy to swap things around, huge reduction in repair costs if you have an 'off', etc.  Not the first time the tank has changed though - it started out as steel, has gone to plastic, and has changed contour at the rider's knee cutouts and fitment with the seat.

But the swingarm has changed repeatedly (851-888 style aluminum, 851-888 style steel with new style axle adjusters, ST based DSS with larger rear axle, s2r/s4r tubular SSS, desmosedici-style DSS, and 748-998/Hyper SSS), as has the frame (851-888 style with modified cross-members and welded on sub-frame, ST-based with modified rear frame area, to desmosedici style 2-piece frame design).     Budget components on the entry level model in the Monster lineup - that being the cheapest of the cheap in Ducati terms... its been that way from the beginning of the Monster line.

While I like the traditional round headlight the best - why I originally subscribed to this thread (since I do not yet own a model from the 696-796-1100 generation) - Ducati relegated that iconic look to the SportClassic while modernizing the Monster so it wouldn't be 'dated' in the eyes of consumers when compared to the offerings from KTM, Aprilia, BMW, etc.   

Change was bound to happen. Waiting to react to a model/line sales slump as buyers move to other brands would have been a terrible strategy. And when you look at the history of the Monster - its 851/888 roots with hinging tank, older era borrowed suspension designs (be it 851/888 style or 916/748/ST style), etc - it was falling far behind the advancements of the modern superbikes. That's counter to the Ducati racing and production philosophy - race advancements trickle-down to the production bikes. A superbike gave the Monster life. Radial brake caliper mounting was employed by Ducati during the 996-998 era and was equipped on production models shortly thereafter. Two-piece calipers were normal on production and race machines, and Ducati was fitting monobloc Brembo designs to their superbikes. Now that technology is on the production machines as well.  This is part of the appeal of Ducati and one of that separates these motorcycles from other manufacturers. (Note, for example: the new BMW superbike, in top-shelf form, debuted using the same brake equipment that Ducati had begun using as many as 5 years earlier on the '05+ 999 and had since retired those to the lower-spec models in favor of the better monoblocs).

The 696 and later 1100 and 796 feature road-going applications of later technological advancements from MotoGP and WSBK, as well as implementations of the common features found on all the higher end models.  (examples: more stable non-hinging tanks, radial calipers, digital dashes, more abrupt tank curve towards rider, desmo based 2-piece frame design, desmo based dss swingarm, etc)


This particular thread is useful because it shows an example of a headlight-conversion for those Monsters.   But the rest of the thread complaining about the changes are a bit out of place (and arguably petty).  We can find plenty of other threads here alone where such discussions won't interfere with the "here's how I did the conversion" discussions.

[xcaptainxbloodx]

as valid as all that is, take any joe off the street and show him a 93 m900 monster, an s4rs, an s2r1000, and an m1100 and ask him which one is the most different from the rest.

 thats all im saying.

now whether that difference is a pro or a con or a good or bad company/design decision is up for anyones debate (perhaps in a different thread).

nope on those three. 
- same general seat scheme - biposto with a removable cowl to cover passenger section;
- same general ergonomics - seat, rearsets, & 1-piece handlebar w/ central riser configuration are traditional for standards (""nakeds""),
- the 2v belt driven desmodromic motor is still incredibly unchanged since the dawn of the belt era and ye olde ducati 750. 

-seat has completley different lines from previous generations and the cowl looks and mounts completley different all previous gen monsters accepted the same cowl. biposto with a cowl does not = monster, many many other brands and bikes have done this.
- upright and naked does not =monster. seat height, bar reach, seat angle are all noticeably different from all previous gen.
- as a design yeah, its a 2v desmo motor. but where it makes power, the way it sounds and responds is different as is the exhaust routing.


again these are not meant to be a pro or con thing or as an attempt to say the new model "isnt a monster". but to deny that the new monster is a ground up redesign to take the bike in a different direction is absurd, that was the whole idea with this design!

[Raux]

you could use the same situation for the Porsche 911. How many original owners would look at the new one as the true 911?

[junior varsity]

the only manufacturer to date who is trying to present a current model that looks substantially similar to their older era bikes is Triumph with the Bonneville (I don't use Harley, as they really have not upgraded theirs much at all).  The Bonneville is only fun to ride, and only midly fun at that, in the Thruxton trim.  It is not the hot seller that a Monster is because its a technological turd.   The Speedtriple gets updated regularly, even a street triple added to the lineup.

- as a design yeah, its a 2v desmo motor. but where it makes power, the way it sounds and responds is different as is the exhaust routing.

guess you haven't ridden a carbd 900 and the short-stroke s4rs back to back to compare. those are worlds apart, the 696 is right in the fuelie M695-800-900ie world.   Perhaps the best way to subdivide the motor would be long versus short manifolds, then 2-vs-4 valves, then head-porting revisions. The 900-carb is long manifold and carburetted, the 900ie is short-manifold and fuel injected. The 800/1000 heads were revised short manifold. Or its necessary to be so picky as to subdivide by bore, stroke, valve size, and cam grind. 

Or, , you could break it down to the science - and its a piston engine rather than a rotary [see JPS Norton],  so it's the same. The way it makes power is fuel comes in and is compressed, then the spark sets off combustion and the expanding gasses push the piston, thereby rotating the crank.  Its even the same way the Japanese do it.  the 'in' crowd gave it a fancy name "internal combustion."  The 'power' is theoretical power output is calculated using some basic thermodynamics from undergraduate level mechanical engineering or physics textbooks. (A more interesting read is John B. Heywood's Fundamentals of Internal Combustion Engines, ISBN 007028637X)

[Travman]

you could use the same situation for the Porsche 911. How many original owners would look at the new one as the true 911?

The 911 evolution model is what I wish Ducati had used when redesigning the Monster.  With the 911 technical updates are made, but the classic look is constant.  The one time they went a little crazy with the "fried egg" headlights they realized it was a mistake and brought the next version back closer to the orginial. 

This conversation is really just a mellowed version of the conversations that occured back in 2008 or 2009 when the new Monster was unveiled.  I wish they didn't make some of the changes but they did. Doesn't mean I dislike the new bike.  I'm just waiting for someone to come out with a viable fix for that headlight.  That is what this revived thread is about.   

[xcaptainxbloodx]

the only manufacturer to date who is trying to present a current model that looks substantially similar to their older era bikes is Triumph with the Bonneville (I don't use Harley, as they really have not upgraded theirs much at all). 

which is exactly what my point was initially.  the new monster is not the same as the old monster and some people will prefer the old one on actual merits rather than just  a "need to justify that their Monster is better than others. Need to justify that they wouldn't even want the new one if it was available to them."  

The old vs the new have huge differences (especially with this new imagening) and "new" is not synonymous with "better" thats up for us as motorcyclists and enthusiasts to decide for ourselves.

(Also, kawasaki W800, vespa PX, suzuki TU250X, Norton, Honda CB1100, MotoGuzzi... just sayin )

guess you haven't ridden a carbd 900 and the short-stroke s4rs back to back to compare. those are worlds apart, the 696 is right in the fuelie M695-800-900ie world.  

absolutely in line with them, but absolutely feels noticeably different than all three right? they all feel different from each other, just because we all ride ducati monster's of various years we need to like all monsters of all years?


look, im not trying to say that ALL the monsters until this new one are the same, all im saying is that the new one is a drastic departure from previous models and that there are so many differences that much of the criticism's and praise people have for them are valid.