TV's. . . lcd, plasma?

[CairnsDuc]

I love it when this type of topic comes up, some of the Myths tend to resurface.

From a previous topic when the Screen burn was brought up:

Just make sure you are not mistaking Image retention with Screen burn, Screen burn on a Plasma now is very very difficult to achieve, The new generation of Plasma are almost as good as LCD for handling still/fixed Images, you would have to leave a high contrast image on a Plasma for days now before screen burn becomes a problem.
I have a 3 CRT gun Rear Projection 51" Sony TV, the CRT Rear Projection tv's are well known to be the easiest TV's to get screen burn on, I use it with my PS3 and play games like Warhawk and GT5 prolouge and so far have not had a mark on the screen. And I am very picky about my picture quality.

Image retention is just a case of a non moving Image leaves an excess charge in the Plasma pixels (And yes, you get this on LCD as well) and it leaves a shadow behind on the screen, use the TV as normal for a while or switch it off and the Image while disappear, this is normal on just about every TV design  (excluding DLP)

You might be interested to know, I have started to see more and more Image retention appearing in LCD's now, so it's not just Plasma that have Image retention issues.

From another thread asking about televisions.

* Burn in.
On new Generation panels now is very difficult to do (read: almost impossible for the average home user) to burn in a panel you would have to leave a static high, contrast image on a new generation panel for days before hurting them.
Older generation panels it was very easy because of the higher voltages, different gas and phosphor mix, and the panels higher operating Temps. Most people see burn in on old panels in displays, TV stations that have done tens of thousands of hours of work and are old generation panels and assume they are all like that.
I use a playstation 3 for Movies/games and Cable TV on my older plasma (2 Generation old Panasonic), never seen a mark, I've dozed off for hours and left a still image on the screen for hours at a time, still no problems.
So what this means that for the home user, Burn in is really not worth worrying about, it is a non issue.

*Longevity
Plasma's for the last 4 to 5 years are rated for 60000 hours plus of life, The new Panasonics are rated for a staggering 100000 hours of life!!, the average LCD back light is rated for 60000 hours, A tube TV is rated for 30000 hours and a CRT rear Projection TV is rated for 15000 hours, but lets put that into perspective..
Use your TV for 8 hours a day every day of the TV's life
15000 hours = 5 years
30000 hours = 10 years
60000 hours = 20 years
100000 hours = 34 years
So what does this mean for the home user, Well, your TV might have to be buried with you when you check out!
I have panels I placed in a local hotel's Reception area 3 years ago, they run 24 hours a day (That means over 26000 hours non stop!!) and they still look very good, no burn in, and a nice clean bright picture.

*Contrast Ratio
It is a useless ratio, companies use different ways to measure it, and quite a few fudge the figures to get the figures they want, I advise customers to ignore it. Panasonic admitted this year they marked there new plasma's with the Million to one ratio just to piss off the Koreans (LG/Samsung) who always claim stupid ratio's on very average panels.

*Response time
Another useless figure, companies use all sorts of tricks to claim some amazing speed, if you avoid the no name brands they now are all pretty good.
Point of Interest, Plasma is much faster than the fastest LCD, so if you love your sport, you will get less motion blur on a Plasma.
LCD is measured in Milliseconds response time, Plasma is Tenths of a millisecond.

There is a lot of Misinformation on Plasma's and most of it comes from the early lives of plasma's, and yes I love plasma's but I do own a couple of LCD's, but for the main room, it's plasma all the way. LCD has it's place, but for Sport Movies and watching TV, Plasma is still the superior picture.

Also, the power consumption issue and heat keeps coming up, after about 7 years in the TV industry, LCD and Plasma are almost lineball on this, Plasma has been coming down every year, the average Panasonic plasma is drawing approx 300 to 400 watts (08 Models) The average LCD is around that sort of consumption also, but there are some exceptions to the Rule, LG's LCD's were shockers for massive power consumption, the last time I dealt with them they were on average rated for 1100 to 1500 watts of power draw   and they would run super hot, I could stand at 90 degrees to the TV and look at the heat haze above there rear cooling vents, Sony were also another bad one for Power consumption.

Not trying to be a Smartass, It's just up until a few months ago I had been selling and dealing with TV's for nearly 7 years, and unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation out there, and a lot of badly informed sales people, Poor or no training means a lot sales people make stuff up to cover for there lack of knowledge, I used to repair this sort of equipment, so I used to try and pass on this knowledge to my customers to let them make an informed decision.

But the best advice I would say to customers is let's look at normal TV (turn off the demo movies which always make a TV look good)

* look at some sport you love watching, look for blurring or halo effects around anything moving.
* get the remote and play around with the set, tell the Sales guy to piss off and leave you alone for 20 mins or so.
* look at skin tones, do they look natural? if not, how hard is it to adjust the set to make the colour and brightness look more realistic.
* How hard is it to tune in or set up?
* Does it have enough connections for all of your current equipment, and for anything else in the near future (A Games machine or new Cable box for example)
* Warranty and Spares backup, a number of companies have long warranties, but what is the point if you have to wait 3 months for parts, try to find the local service/repair agent and talk to them.
Most are more than happy to offer suggestions about brands and models, have a look around when you go in, most service agents keep the repaired out the front waiting for pickup, does any one brand seem to be more represented than the others?

I always remind people, you'll be living with this set for many years, and spending many hours watching it, make sure you are 100% happy and confident before leaving the store or placing your order.
I hope this Helps  

[CairnsDuc]

On the LED sets, just note that the LEDs are just replacing the Fluro back lights, they are still a LCD panel out the front, but the signs so far are very promising, as noted by Derby, they are thinner, lighter and have less power consumption.

For me, Plasma is still King. Just....
But with the LCD market moving so fast and other technologies moving even faster (Oled for example) I think the end for Plasma is drawing closer.

[rgramjet]

Well put!

I dig my Samsung 58" Plasma.  If my room was any brighter, it would have been a bad choice due to the reflectivity of the screen.

[Monsterlover]

<mega snip>

I hope this Helps  

It does, thanks!!

[COWBOY]

Aside from Cairns advice I would also suggest going to  www.avsforum.com.  Go down to the LCD or Plasma Forums and do a search for the models you're interested in.  Most models will have an owners forum where they'll discuss settings, issues, etc.

If you decided to buy online the best AV place I've used is www.onecall.com (great prices and excellent service).  Don't forget to check Amazon though sometimes they'll clear out inventory and the savings can be large (I saved over 1500 on my 60" Pio Plasma in 2006).

[rgramjet]

I used Nextag.com and ended up buying my Samsung from cameraaddict.com.  Great price, free shipping, no tax and good customer service.

[Monsterlover]

Damn. I never considered there were forums for tv owners.

This does not surprise me

[redxblack]

+1 on costco. We don't have a costco near here, so I went to a Sam's Club and looked at their tvs. I got a 42" Philips (1080p) for $400 less than it was at Best Buy (and $100 less than I could find anywhere online).

Warehouse clubs can be great for electronics, provided they have the model you want. Costco is a great company with an excellent return policy. I wish there was one in my neck of the woods.

[He Man]

costco also warranties any electornics they sell with an additional 1 year, making it a 2 year warranty. So any issues that might be warranty related,you can just bring it to costco to have it swapped.

[mookieo2]

On the LED sets, just note that the LEDs are just replacing the Fluro back lights, they are still a LCD panel out the front, but the signs so far are very promising, as noted by Derby, they are thinner, lighter and have less power consumption.

For me, Plasma is still King. Just....
But with the LCD market moving so fast and other technologies moving even faster (Oled for example) I think the end for Plasma is drawing closer.

+1

I own an AV company and I still recommend Plasma. The new Panasonic's are nice. The Pioneers were better. Th Vidikron/ Runco 720p Plasmas where the best I have ever sold. I have a 720p Pioneer and I still love it. The video processing is pretty good. That`s why I hate Samsung. They have the worst video processing IMO. The new stuff isn`t that bad but they should spend more money on video processing than marketing. Everyone wants a Samsung LCD for some reason. With a still or slow moving image they are really nice- put on a football or basketball game and the whole thing is a blur. The older Sammy plasmas if you look at a black image on the screen you would see sparkles in it.

I would still take a 720p TV for regular TV viewing. I watch mostly cable so a 1080p display is a wastes a lot of processing power upconverting to 1080p. Blue Ray still looks really good on a 720p display. A lot better than standard DVD.

I saw an LG LED backlight LCD at Cedia this year and it blew me away. I don`t think that they are selling it yet as they cut back on production.
I would go with the Panasonic 800U THX if you can find it or a Pioneer Elite Plasma( it can still be found).

As far as calibration is concerned. I`m an ISF certified video calibrator and the Panasonic's calibrate really well. The Sony XBR`s calibrated really well too for LCD`s but I haven`t gotten my hands on a new one yet.

Just a brief my $.002

[CairnsDuc]

+1

I own an AV company and I still recommend Plasma. The new Panasonic's are nice. The Pioneers were better.

The Pioneers are a superb Plasma, I just started working for a place that sells Pioneers plasma panels, since Pioneer announced that they are dropping from the Plasma market, there prices have gone up, along with the sales, anyone who sells them in the city I live in is making a small fortune from them! no one is discounting and the demand is sky rocketing!

[Monsterlover]

How do you all feel about today's woot?

http://www.woot.com/Default.aspx?WootSaleId=9437&ref=wootalyzer.com

Refurbished 52" Phillips LCD
1080P
$1,199.99 + $5 shipping

only a 90 day warranty though.

Thoughts?

<edit> Nevermind, further research shows its not that great of a deal

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=Philips+52PFL7403D\F7&oe=utf-8&hl=en&cid=5872209163121974510&sa=title#p

as you were



</edit>

Should I jump on it?

[NAKID]

IMO, that's not a great price. Not that it's bad to buy a refurb, but it's more than I paid for my Samsung 52 LCD and the Phillips only has a 90 day warranty...

[Monster Dave]

I don't mean to throw in another option, but have you considered LED?

[Monsterlover]

To be honest I don't know enough about this to consider LED and really understand what Im looking at.