Converting S2R Gauges for 2000 M900?

[gatorgrizz27]

Hi, I have a 2000 M900 that I am changing everything I don't like about it (wheels, rearsets, single sided swingarm, etc). The only thing I will be left with that I don't like are the stock gauges (electronic tach, mechanical speedo, analog odo). Anyone know if it is in any way possible to use S2R gauges (electronic tach & speedo, digital odo) on this bike? I would obviously need a plug to go into the back of the pod, but then for the lights and tach is it simply a matter of splicing all of the correct wires? Anyone have any experience with how both style tachs work? Then for the speedo, I already have a speed sensor from a 748, how exactly does this thing convert the signal to read on the speedometer? Thanks a lot for any help or resources you could point me to. Wondering more of how everything works, and not whether it is "worth it" or not. I am building this bike because Ducati doesn't make exactly what I want (900 engine, metal tank, SSS, Marchesini 10-spokes) Thanks again, Jon.

[herm]

you may need to consider the whole mated immobilizer issue (instrument cluster-ecu-key). the 2000 m900 does not have the immobilizer, right?

[Slide Panda]

Hmm this might get messy.

I believe you've need more than just the dash like Herm said.  I don't recally 100% for sure, but I think those immobilizer dashes are mated to an ECU - so you'll need the right ECU.  YOu also need a different ignition lock to accommodate the immobilizer antenna  or figure out some other way to mount it.

For you speed sensor - the speedo on the S2R is a magnetic sensor that tracks the passing of the brake rotor studs/nuts.

I'm not sure on the tach since I've never messed with one - but that might be the most simple part of the process.

For your 'worth it' question... probably not.  The parts alone will be very costly if you get a new set.  And the related bodging to get an immobilizer system to not freak out when placed on a bike that didn't have one before, might drive you nuts and have all sorts of odd issues.  Another DMFer converted her 620 to a 900 which is more simple than what you're talking about and had all sorts of immobilizer bugs.  Enough so that she ditched the stock guages and the imobo system completely. 
Details on that:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=26633.0

[DarkStaR]

"IF" I didn't have the immobilizer mumbo-jumbo, i'd get this:

[gatorgrizz27]

Thanks for the replies so far, but I don't think I will need an ECU, at least not because of the immobilizer.  I know the immobilizer is the ring that is around the keyswitch to sense a coded key, and then runs into the dash and back out to the ECU.  My ECU cannot be immobilized, I wouldn't even need a coded key.  You can unplug the dash on my bike and take it off and it will still start up and run just the same.

Anyone have an S2R dash off the bike they can pull open and see what the immobilizer wires run to? To figure out how it is all tied together, do any of you guys with the S2Rs know if you have a key that fits the ignition but isnt coded, will your dash light up and your starter button not work, or will it crank but not fire because the ECU doesn't let it spark/ inject fuel, or do you get no dash power at all until you have a coded key?

Looking at the immobilized wiring diagram, it appears that the dash gets power from the main relay before it runs through the immobilizer.  So if I can get power to everything and then the immobilizer cannot kill my ECU, I should be able to make it all at least light up and run without the coded key system.

There's no way a bike that can run without any dash won't be able to run with a dash, but I may not be able to get the everything in the gauges to work.  Lets go through things one at a time and see where issues could be:

Tach:  Does the tach only receive a signal from the ECU?  I cannot see any sensor on the M900 engine that could give the tach a signal, the wiring diagram shows a wire running from the ECU directly to the tach.  I am assuming the S2R works the same way, but this could be a possible issue, if the signals are different between motors.

Speedo: I will need a speedo sensor to mount off of the rear wheel.  My diagram for the newer bikes shows a wire running directly to the speedo gauge, so if I can get the pulses right this should work ok.

Odometer:  Anyone know if this is tied to the ECU or if it just counts off of the wheel speed sensor?  My diagram doesn't show what wires go to what after they go into the dash. 

Dash lights:  I need my low fuel light, neutral light, and low oil pressure light, thats really it.  If I could hook up the oil temp sensor to the dash that would be cool too.  On the 2000's the oil temp sensor goes right to the ECU, on the 2002 it goes to the dash, then back out to the ECU.  The fuel indicator light appears to work the same with both systems, as does the turn signal light.  So basically I will have the check engine light that will not be connected to anything.

Summary:  Figure out how the tach senses the RPM, and if it must do so from the ECU, and if so if the ECU's are the same in that way or if I need to get a signal from somewhere else.  Possibly the stock tach wires can just be hooked up the the S2R tach directly?  Both are electronic.  Speedo should work fine, as it is independent of the ECU.  I can fine tune the speedo if it reads off my moving the sensor towards the center or outside edge of the brake rotor.  Necessary dash lights will work.  Now I need to find a dash for cheap.  There is one on Ebay I am watching, or if anyone has one they aren't using that isn't cracked I may purchase it.  Thanks guys, post up if you have any of this info.

[Howie]

Thanks for the replies so far, but I don't think I will need an ECU, at least not because of the immobilizer.  I know the immobilizer is the ring that is around the keyswitch to sense a coded key, and then runs into the dash and back out to the ECU.  My ECU cannot be immobilized, I wouldn't even need a coded key.  You can unplug the dash on my bike and take it off and it will still start up and run just the same.

Anyone have an S2R dash off the bike they can pull open and see what the immobilizer wires run to? To figure out how it is all tied together, do any of you guys with the S2Rs know if you have a key that fits the ignition but isnt coded, will your dash light up and your starter button not work, or will it crank but not fire because the ECU doesn't let it spark/ inject fuel, or do you get no dash power at all until you have a coded key?

Looking at the immobilized wiring diagram, it appears that the dash gets power from the main relay before it runs through the immobilizer.  So if I can get power to everything and then the immobilizer cannot kill my ECU, I should be able to make it all at least light up and run without the coded key system.

There's no way a bike that can run without any dash won't be able to run with a dash, but I may not be able to get the everything in the gauges to work.  Lets go through things one at a time and see where issues could be:

Tach:  Does the tach only receive a signal from the ECU?  I cannot see any sensor on the M900 engine that could give the tach a signal, the wiring diagram shows a wire running from the ECU directly to the tach.  I am assuming the S2R works the same way, but this could be a possible issue, if the signals are different between motors.

The signal comes from the ECU.  Can the signal from the ignition module be used? Dunno.

Speedo: I will need a speedo sensor to mount off of the rear wheel.  My diagram for the newer bikes shows a wire running directly to the speedo gauge, so if I can get the pulses right this should work ok.

The speedo sensor is a hall effect, not the usual AC pulse. 

Odometer:  Anyone know if this is tied to the ECU or if it just counts off of the wheel speed sensor?  My diagram doesn't show what wires go to what after they go into the dash. 

Same signal.

Dash lights:  I need my low fuel light, neutral light, and low oil pressure light, thats really it.  If I could hook up the oil temp sensor to the dash that would be cool too.  On the 2000's the oil temp sensor goes right to the ECU, on the 2002 it goes to the dash, then back out to the ECU.  The fuel indicator light appears to work the same with both systems, as does the turn signal light.  So basically I will have the check engine light that will not be connected to anything.

Summary:  Figure out how the tach senses the RPM, and if it must do so from the ECU, and if so if the ECU's are the same in that way or if I need to get a signal from somewhere else.  Possibly the stock tach wires can just be hooked up the the S2R tach directly?  Both are electronic.  Speedo should work fine, as it is independent of the ECU.  I can fine tune the speedo if it reads off my moving the sensor towards the center or outside edge of the brake rotor.  Necessary dash lights will work.  Now I need to find a dash for cheap.  There is one on Ebay I am watching, or if anyone has one they aren't using that isn't cracked I may purchase it.  Thanks guys, post up if you have any of this info.

Anything can be done, but, to me, your project seems like too much time and work.  I would go with this:

"IF" I didn't have the immobilizer mumbo-jumbo, i'd get this:

Go to their home page to see the variety they offer
http://www.motogadget.com/en/frameset.html?gclid=CL3u64Oo2JsCFcZM5Qod-3hR_w

Also check these guys out
http://www.kosonorthamerica.com/

[NAKID]

Thanks for the replies so far, but I don't think I will need an ECU, at least not because of the immobilizer.  I know the immobilizer is the ring that is around the keyswitch to sense a coded key, and then runs into the dash and back out to the ECU.  My ECU cannot be immobilized, I wouldn't even need a coded key.  You can unplug the dash on my bike and take it off and it will still start up and run just the same.

That's really odd. Mine will not start at all when the gauge is unplugged...

[gatorgrizz27]

That's really odd. Mine will not start at all when the gauge is unplugged...

Its because my bike is a 2000, there's no immobilizer like the 02+ bikes...

[gatorgrizz27]

Thanks for the info Howie, finally getting somewhere!    I don't mind doing a bit of work like tracking down the right sensors and splicing all of the right wires, but if its not going to be compatible at all, I won't mess with it.  I don't really know how the hall system works, is it still based off the rear brake rotor?  I have looked at Koso's stuff before, its not really what I am looking for, to Japanese looking for my tastes.  The Motogadget stuff is pretty sweet, but its also over 400 Euros, a whole lot more than I want to spend.  If I can pick up this S2R dash for $100 - $150 I may go for it and see what I can get to work.  I don't have to replace my dash, but if I can do it somewhat cheaply I would still like to.  Thanks guys, if you can explain any more about the speedo / tach signals that would be great.

[Christian]

Replying mostly to track this thread. Hope you make good progress and solve all your issues!

Is the speedo sensor on all Monsters in the rear, or just the S2R? I know on my SBK the speedo is driven off the front wheel.

It seems like if you don't mind spending the time and money that you should be able to convert the signals to how you need them. It might take a while and be a bit of a headache, but if it produces the bike you want it'll be worth it in the end.

I'm a huge fan of crazy projects. The 620->900 is a great example. I really dig the new style digital gauges so if you get your '00 M900 running on S2R gauges I might try to follow suit with my '01.

Keep us posted!

[NAKID]

Dude, I totally had that backwards. I thought you had an S2R and wanted to get rid of the gauges and replace them with the ones from the 900...

[Howie]

In simplified terms, a hall effect sensor is triggered by a voltage difference, and is a three wire system.  The reluctor on the Ducati Monster is not a separate piece, they use the bolts that mount the rotor.  I think the hard part is compatibility and fabrication.  The plate that holds the sensor is for a fatter axle than your bike, for instance.  You also need to budget in the cost of the sensor, plate and what ever else you need.  The sensor and plate, if ordered new, would cost about $300.  I doubt they would be easy to fined used.

[gatorgrizz27]

In simplified terms, a hall effect sensor is triggered by a voltage difference, and is a three wire system.  The reluctor on the Ducati Monster is not a separate piece, they use the bolts that mount the rotor.  I think the hard part is compatibility and fabrication.  The plate that holds the sensor is for a fatter axle than your bike, for instance.  You also need to budget in the cost of the sensor, plate and what ever else you need.  The sensor and plate, if ordered new, would cost about $300.  I doubt they would be easy to fined used.

Thanks again Howie, that makes a lot more sense, you have been very helpful.  I will have to look into the reluctor setup, I am going to be running a SBK single sided swingarm so the sensor may fit, not sure about the brake rotor.  Time to do some digging in the Ducati microfiche.  I will post up if I can come up with the parts and get this figured out.

[Slide Panda]

I am going to be running a SBK single sided swingarm so the sensor may fit, not sure about the brake rotor. 

How are you planning on doing that?  The 2000 Monsters still used the 'hoop' style suspension, so a conversion the the SBK swing arm is going to take a lot more work that it would with the ST framed Monsters that appeared in 01.  Sounds like you've got a mind for some tough projects - just curious to see how you'll pull it off.

Perhaps a build thread when you get started for real 

[gatorgrizz27]

Well I am going to go for it, I found a sensor for about $40, which isn't too bad, but someone has already bid on the gauges I want so hopefully they won't go sky high.    If anyone has an S2R dash they want to sell for around $100, send me a PM.  Doesn't matter if the immobilizer is jacked up of you don't have keys or anything.  Thanks.

I will do a build thread in a few weeks, for now I'm still collecting parts.  The hoop style monsters require modifying the upper shock mount along with all of the other typical things (narrowing engine case, new headers, rearsets, frame bracing, etc.)  I am still looking for the shock I need and the swingarm I bought didn't have the adapter bushings for the pivot bolt so I am getting those as well. 

I am building this because I got a good deal on the bike I am starting with and Ducati doesn't make the bike what I want, so I am going to make one.  Not the easiest thing in the world, but I have a welder and a grinder