OEM vs SS Steel Clutch Springs

[He Man]

Ive contacted Barnett regarding their red friction material clutch packs, and after I told them I was using Speedy Moto springs, i got this email back.... Because I dont want to be misquoted, ill just copy and paste the whole email.

I have compared our Ducati spring, the Speedy Moto spring, and the OEM spring for your bike (#0659.16.555) and found something interesting that I believe is the cause of your premature clutch failure. While our spring is the same tension as the OEM spring at 1' compressed, the Speedy Moto spring is about 4 lbs lighter. When multiplied by six, you are getting 24 lbs less spring pressure. This will definitely cause the clutch to fail in a short amount of time. I strongly recommend using our springs or the OEM springs regardless of the clutch pack you choose to install.

I know that many people go with the Speedy Moto springs because they offer them in stainless and they are a bit more attractive than the OEM springs or our powdercoated gold springs. However, if they aren't the proper tension, it's not worth it. In the very near future, we will be introducing new spring sets for the dry clutch models. These springs will be an attractive black powdercoat and will include your choice of red, black, gold, or clear anodize spring cups and stainless spring screws. As soon as they are in production, they will added to our website and you will most likely start seeing the press releases in the magazines in the near future.

Chris Taylor
Barnett Tool & Eng. 

Ive also contacted Speedy Moto and asked them what they know about this problem.

Ive always been under the assumption that the stainless Steel SPeedymoto springs were heavier than the stock springs...Whats the truth?

[NAKID]

They feel stiffer to me. Plus, what about all the people that pull two springs to ease the pull. Have those people experienced accelerated clutch wear?

[erkishhorde]

I wasn't extremely fond of the way the red friction barnett pack wore on my m900 either. Then again I drag the clutch a lot at stop lights which causes them to wear fast.

[He Man]

i havent abused my clutch at all with the barnet pack (mostly because the opportunity never arised), so its been basically under commuting use.

They feel stiffer to me. Plus, what about all the people that pull two springs to ease the pull. Have those people experienced accelerated clutch wear?

that depends, im sure it does, but how at what point does the pressure start to accelerate wear noticeably?  i think its just a way for them to get out of admitting their friction material sucks.

[NAKID]

i think its just a way for them to get out of admitting their friction material sucks.

I think that's exactly what it is...

[DucHead]

This is an interesting thread.  Hopefully others will weigh in.

I just installed SpeedyMoto springs after I "He-Man-ed" my clutch hub.   

[El Matador]

Ive contacted Barnett regarding their red friction material clutch packs, and after I told them I was using Speedy Moto springs, i got this email back.... Because I dont want to be misquoted, ill just copy and paste the whole email.


Ive also contacted Speedy Moto and asked them what they know about this problem.

Ive always been under the assumption that the stainless Steel SPeedymoto springs were heavier than the stock springs...Whats the truth?

Dude, there is no way your clutch should be wearing so fast, not on your bike.

Hell, in my 996 the Barnett Clutch pack that was installed survived almost 10k miles and a bunch of trackdays. Also, I know that the previous owner could not ride worth shit. Something ain't right on your bike.

[DucHead]

I must have missed something...did your (He Man's) clutch wear out prematurely?

Based on clutch slip?   Are you sure there's no oil leak onto the plates?

[El Matador]

I must have missed something...did your (He Man's) clutch wear out prematurely?

Based on clutch slip?   Are you sure there's no oil leak onto the plates?

Yup, IIRC about 5 months ago he changed out the clutch.

[pennyrobber]

One of the first things I did to my bike was a Speedymoto pressure plate with Speedymoto stainless springs. I have over 20000 mi. on her and I am still using the stock clutch pack with no issues.

I like the idea of the powdercoated springs Barnett says they will offer but I think that it will not make that big a difference.

[He Man]

Yup, IIRC about 5 months ago he changed out the clutch.

i changed it out somewhere along that time, and didnt start riding till summer school started (6 weeks ago)

[Triple J]

I think their explanation is BS.

1. I've had Speedymoto springs on my bike for over 13K miles now...no problems. I still have the stock friction plates, but if the lower pressure hurts their plates, then it should hurt ALL plates. If it only affects their plates, then something is wrong with their plates.

2. Quite a few people remove 2 springs, and everything works fine.

3. The only way i can see their explanation working is if the clutch was slipping due to the 24lbs of reduced pressure. You would have noticed this. If it wasn't slipping, then how exactly does the reduced pressure cause to friction plates to wear out faster?? What is the failure mechanism?

[He Man]

from speedy moto

I'm sorry to hear that your clutch has worn out prematurely.



Well, actually we have tested many OEM Ducati springs and they range +- 10%  from -95lbs compressed, we feel this is due to different spring suppliers for Ducati.  Ducati doesn't keep a close tolerance on their spring supply because that small difference has little effect on longevity.



Barnett springs are over built and claim it's for longevity, but that's just not necessarily true.  Barnett springs just makes the already hard clutch pull even harder on your clutch hand.  If I may suggest some areas that Barnett seems to have overlooked in their attempt to down sell you their newest GSXR clutch spring for your Ducati.  Proper clutch stack height, correct friction material, proper break in, clutch adjustment and most importantly your riding style.



We have never had any problems with our springs causing premature wear on OEM or Barnett clutch packs and in fact we have seen and ridden many bikes with 20K+ miles on the original clutch using our spring kits.  In our experience Barnett clutch packs do not usually last as long as OEM and the average OEM clutch life on most Ducati superbikes seems to be 10K-15K miles depending on riding conditions.  If your clutch life was within this millage, I would say you probably got your money's worth.



Please let me know if we can help you further.



Sincerely,



Christian Hansen

Co-ordinator of Synchronicity

SpeedyMoto

ph 503.445.4368

tollfree 866.375.0727

fx 503.239.5426

www.speedymoto.com

[He Man]

Whoa, someone took a shit....

response form barnett... not sure if its right for me to post all this up for the world to see.

I disagree with Speedy Moto, but I'm not going to get into an argument over this with them or you. However, this statement is completely ridiculous and totally false:

If I may suggest some areas that Barnett seems to have overlooked in their attempt to down sell you their newest GSXR clutch spring for your Ducati.

What in the world does the GSXR or the GSXR spring have to do with anything? Where did they get this from? The spring we use for the dry clutch Ducati's is ONLY used for Ducati. That statement by them is way out of line and they should not be commenting on our products without proper knowledge and/or facts. They need to get their facts straight- the only spring we have that fits a Ducati and a GSXR is the spring for some wet clutch models such as the 848, ST3, etc. We are not referring to the wet clutch models here and the springs are completely different. I did not bad mouth or put down Speedy Moto in any way. That's not our way of doing business- apparently they do not handle things the same way. I only stated THE FACTS. I compared our spring, their spring, and the OEM spring. That's it. I related what I found and did not make any negative or derragotory remarks regarding their company or products.

Another example of their misguided response is to state that our spring is over built. If our spring is basically the same specs as the OEM spring, how is it over built? Yes, we do have spring sets that are extra heavy duty that can be used- yes, they are stiffer and will create a stiffer lever pull, but that ISN'T what we are talking about here. The spring we list for your bike and that I have been referring to all along, is our standard replacement spring.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter. Again, I'm not going to get into a three-way spat about this.

Chris Taylor
Barnett Tool & Eng.

My reponse

I'm not trying to get into an argument here. Here is something important to look at. If speedy moto springs do not supply the sufficient amount of force, then any type of friction plates should wear prematurely. That's not the case. It seems to only be the case with your clutch packs, specifically the red friction material. I can personally send you links to people who have stated they used your clutch for 10,000 miles nad loved it. and those who said they repalced it three times within 10,000 miles and hate it.

I was not clear to Speedymoto if i was using a dry clutch or a wetclutch, that was my fault. You seem to take it personally. It was a simple misunderstanding. Speedymoto has nothing to gain from that statement, they do not make wet clutch springs. I apologize for that misunderstanding.

However, it still remains, if ducati springs are +/- 10% difference from a 95 pound compression test, then 4lbs is not out of the ordinary. To fully understand the topic, you must test a significant number of springs to make sure your claim is valid.

Seriously this is just getting retarded.

[El Matador]

I think you are all overlooking a very important point here.

He-man, whatever it is that you're doing, don't.  It's a trap man, it's a trap. Don't agree to any meetings. If you do, you will be on the next episode of dateline.

We have never had any problems with our springs causing premature wear on OEM or Barnett clutch packs and in fact we have seen and ridden many bikes with 20K+ miles on the original clutch using our spring kits.  In our experience Barnett clutch packs do not usually last as long as OEM and the average OEM clutch life on most Ducati superbikes seems to be 10K-15K miles depending on riding conditions.  If your clutch life was within this millage, I would say you probably got your money's worth.



Please let me know if we can help you further.



Sincerely,



Christian Hansen[/size]

Co-ordinator of Synchronicity

SpeedyMoto

ph 503.445.4368

tollfree 866.375.0727

fx 503.239.5426

Seriously though? this is better than cable.