Looking through the turn

[erkishhorde]

On my last ride through Angels Crest Highway I was feeling like I'm not looking through the turn like I should be. Well, I know that I'm not looking through the turn like I should be. The problem is that I like to see where I'm going. When I'm riding around a mountain, looking through the turn puts me looking at the wall next to me instead of the road in front of me. Don't ride any faster than you feel is safe, especially on the curves. OK, I felt safe at the speed I was going handling-wise (for those that know the road I was only going 50) but I also felt that if anything should pop up on me I could be screwed because I couldn't see far enough ahead to react. At a recent skill class I went to, I was told that I should have already looked at the road going into the turn so I should be confident that it's clear so that I can look through the turn but what about the turn itself. So I'm a bit lost on how to get pass this.

[stopintime]

I've noticed that this tecnique is quite easy to follow on the track. I know the bumps, if there are any, and can focus on the apex and exit.

On the road, not so easy. I have the same problem. I switch between looking through the turn and checking the road closer ahead. It's not ideal, but I feel it's required.

The result is slower speeds on the road - which is probably normal and wise.
I have tried taking smooth road surfaces for granted, got my share of surprises and then decided to hold back on the speed and lean angle. That's what track days are for IMO [moto]

[EvilSteve]

You do need to scan the road surface but if you're doing that right in front of your bike then you're wasting your time because you won't have time to react. Looking through the turn on the street means looking as far through the turn as possible. Your site distance dictates how far ahead you can look and should also be dictating your speed. You peripheral vision should catch any big road imperfections but that doesn't always work so looking is sometimes your best bet.

[ScottRNelson]

I look as far ahead as I can, up to about 12 seconds ahead of me.  Most interesting roads have many parts where I can't see that far ahead.  However, if you can't see six seconds ahead you're likely going too fast for the road.

And I don't just set my eyes on that point up ahead, I'm constantly scanning the road ahead, but most of the time I'm concentrating on either as far as I can see or 12 seconds ahead.  If it's not a habit now, work on it every time you ride.  Some good riding habits can take quite a while to become permanent.

[somegirl]

For blind corners I look at the vanishing point.

Here's a nice explanation from http://www.rideforever.co.nz/ride_smart/control_cornering.html

Judging the radius of a corner

Before deciding how fast a corner can be taken, you'll need to judge the radius. Although this is largely a matter of experience, there's a technique known as watching the 'vanishing-point' which gives a very good idea of the radius of even a blind corner.

    * The vanishing-point is the most distant point on the outside of an approaching corner where either the centre-line or the carriageway side of your lane, as appropriate, disappears from view.

    * If this point seems to be coming closer to you then the corner radius is tightening, and vice versa.

Blind corners are where the vanishing-point technique proves invaluable. If the distance to the vanishing-point seems to be decreasing you need to reduce speed so that it appears to remain constant or increases. When the vanishing-point remains at a constant distance, then your speed is matched comfortably to the corner radius. Likewise, if distance starts to increase, this indicates that speed can be too because the corner radius is opening.

If a road surface is cresting or dipping through a corner this will affect the vanishing-point, but the principle of adjusting your speed so that the vanishing-point remains under your control still applies.

Because the turning radius is smaller on a vision-line, more banking angle will be required. Your entry speed will also be slower than for a racing-line. Where you can see all the way through a corner there's no vanishing-point as such. Proceed through the corner with caution.

[EvilSteve]

The problem with only using vanishing point to set speed is that decreasing radius corners can happen faster than you can react to the change. IMO this is a good technique to assist with corner speed but don't ever assume that the information you're getting using this technique is sufficient to set speed.

[causeofkaos]

as much as i enjoy riding the crest i think that its a difficult road to read if you are not VERY familiar with it, remaining focussed through the ride can be tricky, almost all the turns are blocked by hillside so looking deep into the turn is a challenge, very easy to get distracted up there by oncoming traffic, and as you get farther up the lighting can be tricky as well as the trees will create shade and no shade which can also be distracting. Last time i was down there i felt very good about my ride ( speed limit shmeed limit ) until a pick up truck pulled out of a parking area in the middle of a tight corner ( barely saved it ). That will be the last time i do a quick pace through there.
You know what i havent been riding long enough to have this much of an opinion about a road forget i said anything.

[Speeddog]

as much as i enjoy riding the crest i think that its a difficult road to read if you are not VERY familiar with it, remaining focussed through the ride can be tricky, almost all the turns are blocked by hillside so looking deep into the turn is a challenge, very easy to get distracted up there by oncoming traffic, and as you get farther up the lighting can be tricky as well as the trees will create shade and no shade which can also be distracting. Last time i was down there i felt very good about my ride ( speed limit shmeed limit ) until a pick up truck pulled out of a parking area in the middle of a tight corner ( barely saved it ). That will be the last time i do a quick pace through there.
You know what i havent been riding long enough to have this much of an opinion about a road forget i said anything.

That's actually a pretty good summary of ACH. 

[erkishhorde]

as much as i enjoy riding the crest i think that its a difficult road to read if you are not VERY familiar with it, remaining focussed through the ride can be tricky, almost all the turns are blocked by hillside so looking deep into the turn is a challenge, very easy to get distracted up there by oncoming traffic, and as you get farther up the lighting can be tricky as well as the trees will create shade and no shade which can also be distracting. Last time i was down there i felt very good about my ride ( speed limit shmeed limit ) until a pick up truck pulled out of a parking area in the middle of a tight corner ( barely saved it ). That will be the last time i do a quick pace through there.
You know what i havent been riding long enough to have this much of an opinion about a road forget i said anything.

Na, that's pretty much how I felt. Most of the turns are the same or very similar radius but because of the hillside right next to the road it's hard to tell that. A lot of the turnouts are also mid-turn so while it's possible to scoot through there pretty quickly it's not very safe because of the poor visibility.

[somegirl]

With a difficult road like that, I think the best thing is to keep riding it as much as you can until you are very familiar with it.  And if you're nearby when in a car, drive on it too. 

I think learning a challenging road well will help you get more confidence in your ability to judge blind corners, and that should transfer over to riding other roads as well (although of course an unfamiliar road should be taken more slowly).

[duc996]

+1

[Speeddog]

ACH is a long road, so it'll take quite a few trips to get to where you know it well.
The shadows make it tricky too.
And it's not a forgiving road, cages pull some stuff that's unsafe for bikes, like kaos said.

Glendora Ridge Road has some open areas that are conducive to just isolating the 'looking through the turn' skill.

[Raux]

using the vanishing point is kinda how i set the corner spped for my wreck. all of the sudden the vanishing point was over my shoulder in a decreasing radius turn. 

[Statler]

There's really no excuse for running off the road simply by misreading it...just means too fast for proper control of bike.   

The other issue is that blind corners are just that.  Blind.   One should expect a stopped car or a cow or a refrigerator to be in the road just out of sight.   

[Raux]

There's really no excuse for running off the road simply by misreading it...just means too fast for proper control of bike.   

The other issue is that blind corners are just that.  Blind.   One should expect a stopped car or a cow or a refrigerator to be in the road just out of sight.   

harsh but you are right. i was in not the right frame of mind for that corner. any other day in any other mood i would have taken that corner WAY more cautiously. but i did continue leaning harder til i had no road left at least... give me a bone please.