Hypermotard 796

[kingbaby]

Good suspension... bad suspension...  I can't get past owning a bike being tagged as a "minitard".
Hell, might as well just call it a "weetard" 

 

[mitt]

the new monsters suspension is progressive from the geometry not the spring rates.

Without a 4 bar linkage, they aren't progressive like a super bike or older monster suspension. 

[junior varsity]

I didn't notice until now the new monsters don't have progressive rear suspension (the extra links and pivots) - another cost reduction.  Seems the 'tards are almost a more similar replacement for the older monsters from a frame and suspension standpoint.


mitt

Can you explain the differences and advantages disadvantages between the linked, progressive systems, and what the newer monsters have (would that be "direct"?) ?


This interests me.

[Goat_Herder]

Good suspension... bad suspension...  I can't get past owning a bike being tagged as a "minitard".
Hell, might as well just call it a "weetard"  

  

It's "Wee Tar Did".  

[mitt]

Can you explain the differences and advantages disadvantages between the linked, progressive systems, and what the newer monsters have (would that be "direct"?) ?

I am not an expert on them, but it deals with the fact that the more the wheel travels, the faster the shock compresses, so that a big bump gets a different spring and damper rate.  The traditional geometry like new monsters, old supersports, and sport classics you can't change the rate drastically since the geometry doesn't change a lot.

from a google search, here is a good visual of one 4 bar design (I think a honda design that they "stole" from ducati just before the 999 bikes came out):

http://www.atnet.it/lista/casuni.htm

Lever Ratio (or suspension ratio): the incremental ratio of the Wheel Travel divided by the incremental ratio of the Shock Travel; so that it expresses the increase of the wheel displacement, respect to the increase of the Shock absorber stroke



mitt

[hbliam]

Too difficult for you to keep up?

Yeah, that's it. I'm an idiot for asking guys to keep a Hyper thread about Hypers.

I usually don't care if threads take a slight detour but this 696 suspension tangent deserves it's own thread.

[kopfjäger]

I usually don't care if threads take a slight detour...

Well thank you for that. 

[Raux]

I am not an expert on them, but it deals with the fact that the more the wheel travels, the faster the shock compresses, so that a big bump gets a different spring and damper rate.  The traditional geometry like new monsters, old supersports, and sport classics you can't change the rate drastically since the geometry doesn't change a lot.

the angle that the new monster shock is mounted helps as the angle of the shock to the moving swingarm does change. therefore changing the geometry.
 
the sportclassic are almost in line with the arc of the suspension travel therefore continuous rate.

[Dave R]

the angle that the new monster shock is mounted helps as the angle of the shock to the moving swingarm does change. therefore changing the geometry.
 
the sportclassic are almost in line with the arc of the suspension travel therefore continuous rate.

this is correct..  the wheel can only move straight up and down. The shock mounted at the angle like the 696/1100 allows it to get  progressively stiffer as the angle of the shock becomes more horizontal.

Disregard!!  once again I got sucked in by Raux    I will most this responde somewhere else.. 

[mitt]

I usually don't care if threads take a slight detour but this 696 suspension tangent deserves it's own thread.

If you read, we are comparing the tard suspension versus 696/1100 versus old M1000/s4r suspension, not talking just about 696 suspension. 

mitt

[mitt]

the angle that the new monster shock is mounted helps as the angle of the shock to the moving swingarm does change. therefore changing the geometry.
 

I said the new monster changes a little.  A 4 bar sbk suspension changes drastically.  Time for some CAD layouts and graphs...

mitt

[junior varsity]

i love graphs!

AND charts!

see http://www.jamphat.com/rap/

[mitt]

i love graphs!

AND charts!

see http://www.jamphat.com/rap/

I don't have a .mpg of the motions, but here are the charts and models:

http://sites.google.com/site/mittelstadtc/Home/engineering/motorcycle-rear-suspension

mitt

[junior varsity]

Wow. that's very cool to see. Especially after having taken the ol' kinematics and dynamic machines class in college.

[Monstermonkey]

BTW, my Hyper was $10,400 because the dealer sold it as a demo bike because it had 30 miles on it!