748 vs 749 track bike - advice needed

[killerniceguy]

I am doing the unthinkable...selling the monster to buy a track bike.  The Monster has been a great bike but a track bike it is not.

My budget allows me to consider a late model 748 or an early model 749.  In this part of the world they are worth roughly the same; the 748 will come in a about 1k cheaper.  Both bikes will be in stock form with exhaust only.

Can someone who has ridden them both on the street or track offer any advice on the differences in the bikes?  I know the 749 has a little more power but what else is different between the bikes from a riders perspective. 

Any other advice on the tunablility, service issues, parts availability etc. is also greatly appreciated.  I am running the bike in the Ducati Cup up here which has a 118hp limit.  Big power is not important, although I would like the option to reliably get up to the HP limit over the next couple years (Duc shop here I come!).

Thanks,
KNG

[gm2]

talk to tigre.



and it's not the unthinkable at all.  only, if it weren't for the Cup, i'd tell you to get a japanese 600...  =)

[ducpainter]

<snip> only, if it weren't for the Cup, i'd tell you to get a japanese 600...  =)

hush you...

[desmoquattro]

+1 on talking to tigre. He's been racing a 749R (GRRR) the past three years, and had a 749S before that.

Also, consider this: are you racing it, or just trying to have a lot of fun? The service interval on either bike is 6000 miles so I don't think maintenance will differ all that much. And you can get plenty fast on a 749. I'd almost buy the 748 and dump the extra money into suspension.

[ducpainter]

+1 on talking to tigre. He's been racing a 749R (GRRR) the past three years, and had a 749S before that.

Also, consider this: are you racing it, or just trying to have a lot of fun? The service interval on either bike is 6000 miles so I don't think maintenance will differ all that much. And you can get plenty fast on a 749. I'd almost buy the 748 and dump the extra money into suspension.

That's fine, but the 748 is more prone to rocker issues and can eat $$ in a hurry.

I've ridden and own the **6/8 bikes...they steer like trucks.

The **9 bikes are much better handling so I'm told and have fewer rocker issues, but have ecu/wiring issues instead. The 848/1098 are even better...again so I'm told.

[fasterblkduc]

That's fine, but the 748 is more prone to rocker issues and can eat $$ in a hurry.

I've ridden and own the **6/8 bikes...they steer like trucks.

The **9 bikes are much better handling so I'm told and have fewer rocker issues, but have ecu/wiring issues instead. The 848/1098 are even better...again so I'm told.

All true. I've ridden both and the **8 series does steer like a truck. The handling on those is bad enough that you would be taking a step backwards. (for racing) And yes I've had the **8 series on the track with full Ohlins, magnesium wheels, all the trick better handling stuff and it's still terrible. The rockers are a very serious issue too. I had flakes twice, cost me thousands!
The 749 is an improvement...not great but an improvement. And I've also ridden the new generation... They are awesome...almost japanese in the way they handle.
Keep watching WERA, there have been some great Ducs for sale lately. There were two 749Rs that both went for $10K recently. One of them was from Canada even. I don't know how far from you.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=230012  This would be good for your class. You would have a fighting chance with this. I rode one of these (not with that motor in it) two times this season. It corners slow but it's not too bad. We ran it in a 5 hour until we burned up the clutch.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=229358  This is awesome. AMA FX bike here. For the price, it's incredible.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=230403  Another 749R...this is more than they have been going for but if you wait, it may go down.

[ducpainter]

I will add that a 748/9** chassis bike can steer and handle pretty well with the right profile tire on the front.

I still think the OP would be better off with a 749.

[killerniceguy]

All true. I've ridden both and the **8 series does steer like a truck. The handling on those is bad enough that you would be taking a step backwards. (for racing) And yes I've had the **8 series on the track with full Ohlins, magnesium wheels, all the trick better handling stuff and it's still terrible. The rockers are a very serious issue too. I had flakes twice, cost me thousands!
The 749 is an improvement...not great but an improvement. And I've also ridden the new generation... They are awesome...almost japanese in the way they handle.
Keep watching WERA, there have been some great Ducs for sale lately. There were two 749Rs that both went for $10K recently. One of them was from Canada even. I don't know how far from you.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=230012  This would be good for your class. You would have a fighting chance with this. I rode one of these (not with that motor in it) two times this season. It corners slow but it's not too bad. We ran it in a 5 hour until we burned up the clutch.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=229358  This is awesome. AMA FX bike here. For the price, it's incredible.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=230403  Another 749R...this is more than they have been going for but if you wait, it may go down.

So is the 749 isn't all that great what is the best option under 118hp that isn't a 848.  A early 999 or 996?

[Speeddog]

Doesn't seem to be much too power difference between the 99* engines, at least in stock form, about 4 HP:
http://www.bikeboy.org/996998999comp.html

With a HP limit, you're better off with a big engine in a mild state of tune compared to a small one that's hotter.

[ducpainter]

So is the 749 isn't all that great what is the best option under 118hp that isn't a 848.  A early 999 or 996?

A 996 will still have the rocker issues of the desmoquattro but fits the hp limit. DAMHIK  

I think a 999 will exceed the limit.

That leaves a 749 which is way under the limit, but can be built to 923 and be in the hp area you need.

All hp numbers will depend on the dyno they use.

edit...

Nicks' post makes sense.

[killerniceguy]

Doesn't seem to be much too power difference between the 99* engines, at least in stock form, about 4 HP:
http://www.bikeboy.org/996998999comp.html

With a HP limit, you're better off with a big engine in a mild state of tune compared to a small one that's hotter.

That would be my first choice.  There is guy up here with a bone stock (no exhaust even) 999 making 115 at the wheel on the club dyno.  It is one of the early 999 he says, i guess the later ones had higher hp.

[Speeddog]

Dunno how much power difference a set of cans would make, but I suspect the louder engine note would make it a bit easier to ride.

I've not raced an SBK, but on my S4 it sure was easier to tell how the engine was pulling when I could hear it.

[desmoquattro]

I've not raced an SBK, but on my S4 it sure was easier to tell how the engine was pulling when I could hear it.

Ah, that's why we do it...so we can hear how the engine is pulling. Those car alarms are just coincidental...oh, that's not a smile. I'm just stretching my face

[Speeddog]

Ah, that's why we do it...so we can hear how the engine is pulling. Those car alarms are just coincidental...oh, that's not a smile. I'm just stretching my face

Yep, that's it exactly. 

[zooom]

I have ridden briefly both a **9 and and **8 chassis bike, and in my opinion, some of issues with either come down to 2 main things, 1)body ergonomics and 2)spending the money to have the bike set-up for you properly. I know everyone here agree's wholeheartedly about the latter half of that. Lets face it, if your body frame doesn't want to peacably co-exist with a piece of machinery, no matter how much you fold yourself into it like a pretzel or stretch like a piece of taffy, it just may not be the right bike for you and you may not ever find a co-existance that works with it.

Now, maybe I am the voice of dissent here with what you should think about doing, but I have seen some Sport Classic's and Paul Smart's hotted up nicely putting high 90's to low 100's in HP ( after putting in and tuning 1080 kits and things along that nature) and with the right suspension, you can run hard and fast  and have some lower maintenance costs in the long run. Maybe I am off base here, just seems like a better option to me.