No more Buell...

[superjohn]

I thought Honda was pushing mass centralization pre-Buell.

Buell's been doing it in one way or another since the 80's. It was, in a way, a means to overcome some of the shortcomings of the pushrod HD motor. Centralize the mass, shorten the wheelbase, quicken the steering and build a bike that's flickable with wide gear spacing to make the most of all the torque of the motor.

[ZOSO]

I'm not sure where you get that idea, but non-competes often usually hold if both parties have acted in good faith.  I've done a few cases on business non competes and the affected party has to show bad faith by the other party as to some material part of their agreement.

It doesn't seem there is any bad faith by HD here, as they have just made a simple business decision and are retaining Erik Buell.  If he unilaterally goes off by himself, he will probably be subject to a non compete, and it will probably stand.

A non compete requirement only works under a contractual agreement, he can be subject to that agreement for the rest of his life regardless if he is working for HD or not (if that is how the agreement was structured).

Respectfully, the paragraph immediately above regarding "life-long" non-competes is not accurate (non-competes by nature must be limited in duration/geography, etc., to be enforceable).

And Erik Buell should set up shop in CA, where employee non-compete agreements are statutorily void and unenforceable as being against public policy (with few exceptions).  

And back on topic, innovation is a dangerous game (when profits rule), especially without support from the parent company.  Is anyone really surprised by Buell's announcement?

[ducatiz]

german-designed, actually (porsche)...

i c.. but still a v-twin...  i think a lot of ppl who aren't hd watchers (like me) would never know.  i didn't even know it was a 60 deg twin until a few months ago... i just stopped looking at HDs after about '70

[peanut_man]

 

Man that's sad.  My first bike was a Buell Lightning.  It's clunky but is so full of characters.  Good luck to Erik.

[ducatiz]

Respectfully, the paragraph immediately above regarding "life-long" non-competes is not accurate (non-competes by nature must be limited in duration/geography, etc., to be enforceable).

And Erik Buell should set up shop in CA, where employee non-compete agreements are statutorily void and unenforceable as being against public policy (with few exceptions).  

And back on topic, innovation is a dangerous game (when profits rule), especially without support from the parent company.  Is anyone really surprised by Buell's announcement?

I was typing too fast ---  You are correct, I was referring to the licensing of his name and typed non compete.  Plenty of people have sold their names for a product (Isaac Mizrachi comes to mind) and can't use it for products except under license to the assignee.

I did not mean a non compete has an unlimited duration or scope.  Every state has limitations on that.

Interestingly, California has refused to uphold out-of-state agreements venued in another state.  No one has fought it in federal court and it remains to be seen if the fed cts would force CA to uphold an out-of-state non compete under full faith and credit -- on its face, they likely should be (forced to...)

I am surprised by Buell's announcement because HD has little new market.  The down-market bikes they sell aren't enough to attract new riders willing to buy the higher end stuff that their older riders are buying.

Isn't it a rule that young guys prefer sportbikes and older guys prefer cruisers -- in general? 

[superjohn]

Isn't it a rule that young guys prefer sportbikes and older guys prefer cruisers -- in general? 

I think it's more accurate to assume sportbike riders tend to be younger, and cruiser riders tend to skew older but there's likely just as many young people interested in cruisers as sportbikes. They just get buried in the greater sales or cruisers in general.

That said, I personally believe most people my age and younger will gravitate more to a metric cruiser than a HD unless they buy into the "lifestyle"

[ZOSO]

Interestingly, California has refused to uphold out-of-state agreements venued in another state.  No one has fought it in federal court and it remains to be seen if the fed cts would force CA to uphold an out-of-state non compete under full faith and credit -- on its face, they likely should be (forced to...)

I am surprised by Buell's announcement because HD has little new market.  The down-market bikes they sell aren't enough to attract new riders willing to buy the higher end stuff that their older riders are buying.

IZ jack:
Full faith and credit requires a state to respect a sister state's judgment even if that judgment would be void/against public policy in that state. However, in practice, as soon as an action is filed in another state to enforce a non-compete against someone in CA, the defendant/employee immediately files an action in CA to void the non-compete, and from there it's a race to judgment (first final judgment wins full faith and credit, unlike the "first filed" rule for jurisdiction).  And based on experience, the CA action always reaches judgment first because it is summarily adjudicable (due to non-competes being statutorily void).  So in reality, CA is a safe-haven for wannabe non-compete violators ;- )

On Topic:
I meant I wasn't surprised by Buell's announcement because HD has never given Buell proper support/marketing.  My local HD dealer always kept the Buell's almost hidden in the back of the showroom . . . you almost had to ask to see one to see one.

[RetroSBK]

Buell was the bastard child.. No one liked them... sportbike guys laughed, HD guys turned up noses.. sad really.. should have just built a whole new motor from day one.

The non compete thing, is as you said, worthless in CA.. Even his name could be used here, and in several other states. It could be argued that his name alone falls under the Trademark Dillution act and sets him free...

The wont sell it, but they will continue to use the IP and the parts he designed...

My understanding is that MV proved to be on the slaes block with or without the huge downturn at HD.. but thats for other reasons...

[dropstharockalot]

........

I am surprised by Buell's announcement because HD has little new market.  The down-market bikes they sell aren't enough to attract new riders willing to buy the higher end stuff that their older riders are buying.

I never liked the whole "starter Harley" train of thought... why not just make Buell it's own kick-ass brand of motorcycle? 

HD has plenty of untapped "new" market - it's just being filled by people like my co-worker Jennifer and her husband Mike that have disposable income out the ass but will never be "hardcore" bikers or bar-hopping druks obsessed with loud pipes, so they chose lighter, smaller metric cruisers that are available in a wider range of sizes, work well right off the showroom floor, don't have a history of mechanical quirks, have reasonably-priced accessories, don't have an elitist / cliquish dealer and support network, deliver the bike that you actually ordered on time, and cost thousands less.

They ride all the time and could care less about image - they just want their shit to work.

[junior varsity]

wider range of sizes?

Honda has 3 cruiser lines I thought? VTX, Shadow, Rebel (VTX could be two models if you also say "big vtx" and 1 more if you count the Fury chopper)
The others not much more I believe.

On the other hand, Harley has a gazillion already, and is adding 9 more models this year, in a crap economy for new bikes (go figure), so sayeth the moto mags.

[Duki09]

I don't know the financial statistics of what profit Buell brought in or what it cost HD to run, but it appears that Buell wasn't the biggest seller out there and a reason for a company in a slow-economy to drop.

People can say all they want how great it was that Buell made these bikes and all the pride of desiging and owning a Buell, but profit and sales is what keeps a company going, not pride.

People here are speaking of how Harley Davidson makes only one style of motorcycle and needs that sportbike line.  Excuse me, but look at Ducati, do they make ANY cruisers?  So HD does not need sportbikes more than Ducati needs to make cruisers.

Just like auto manufacturers having to drop many lines of cars, HD dropped of a line of motorcycles.

I mean c'mon,  the all-American Hummer is now Chinese.  Nothing is stable or seems right in the market these days.

Maybe that is what Buell needs to continue to exist again one day.  Made in another country.  It couldn't be worse for them as it is now.

[ducatiz]

I don't know the financial statistics of what profit Buell brought in or what it cost HD to run, but it appears that Buell wasn't the biggest seller out there and a reason for a company in a slow-economy to drop.

People can say all they want how great it was that Buell made these bikes and all the pride of desiging and owning a Buell, but profit and sales is what keeps a company going, not pride.

if that was true, Ducati would have been long gone in the 1960s...

People here are speaking of how Harley Davidson makes only one style of motorcycle and needs that sportbike line.  Excuse me, but look at Ducati, do they make ANY cruisers?  So HD does not need sportbikes more than Ducati needs to make cruisers.

Harley didn't make Buell, Buell made Buell.  They were wholly owned and backed by HD, but Buell had a separate factory and a separate balance sheet.

It would be like Ducati owning another brand, i.e. Guzzi and the Guzzi brand only being cruisers..

[sally101]

Rumors are flying that Yamaha might be interested in Buell... stay tuned..

[ducatiz]

http://www.motorcycle.com/events/buell-factory-tour-88460.html

a factory tour from june, 2009..

it would be nice if yamaha picked them up.. if only to tweak HD's nose and let Buell go back to using good engines.

[DucSeason]

Rumors are flying that Yamaha might be interested in Buell... stay tuned..

Don't count on it. That rumor is all over the web, based on an alleged AP story quoting Yamaha's president, but I went to the AP site and did a search, and it contains nothing of the kind. I'm calling hoax.