No more Buell...

[ducatiz]

Wrong. There was not significant forewarning that Buell was in trouble. They released a new bike platform, it was getting great reviews in the magazines (Look at the newsstand for THIS month's issues - not a word about Buell getting dropped), and they had an entire racing organization throw out the rulebook so they could compete. None of these things show a company that's about to get the boot.

I totally agree..  I have looked at Buells for years and liked their designs but was always wary of the Harley lump -- when the 1125 came out, I actually went to test ride one and loved it..  There was no way to know they were going to get canned.

[NorDog]

I am also surprise by people who probably never even considered owning a Buell now want one just because they are going out of business and they may get one for a lower price. People now have so much feelings about Buell just because they're going on the business.  A feeling of guilt? Feeling of patriotic feelings for an American company or just taking advantage of low prices as a company goes down the drain?

If you really liked Buell, you all would of bought one when they actually needed you as a customer.

Fail.

[kingbaby]

^ +1

Owned 1:  XB12R...  loved it.

Have 1:  X1 in a bobber with 78ft lbs of torque at the rear wheel (bike weighs 347). Love it more.

Rage on Erik !!!

[jerryz]

Buell were not in trouble ...its HD that need money do they ditched Buell.but with 75% of new vehicle  being development costs its MV and Buell that cost HD real money. HD does not spend much on development for their bike as they have very long production runs with minor modifications .Overpricing and quality is HDs real problem plus the demographic issue...they must cost peanuts to build with the poor finishes and the development costs amortised tears ago.

[Travman]

Buell were not in trouble ...its HD that need money do they ditched Buell.but with 75% of new vehicle  being development costs its MV and Buell that cost HD real money. HD does not spend much on development for their bike as they have very long production runs with minor modifications .Overpricing and quality is HDs real problem plus the demographic issue...they must cost peanuts to build with the poor finishes and the development costs amortised tears ago.

Poor finishes???  Really?  Where do you get this?  HD has the best paint in the business. 

[junior varsity]

Not even sure overpricing is a problem. They sell those bikes like crazy. I think an issue is a younger demographic is less interested in the 'mild thrills' a cruiser style bike offers.

[ducatiz]

Not even sure overpricing is a problem. They sell those bikes like crazy. I think an issue is a younger demographic is less interested in the 'mild thrills' a cruiser style bike offers.

they sell them with 0% financing to ppl with bad credit.

but not any more, their sales in the last 2 quarters has gone thru the floor.

[Duki09]

Wrong. There was not significant forewarning that Buell was in trouble. They released a new bike platform, it was getting great reviews in the magazines (Look at the newsstand for THIS month's issues - not a word about Buell getting dropped), and they had an entire racing organization throw out the rulebook so they could compete. None of these things show a company that's about to get the boot.

You didn't get my point.  Nobody would of needed to be forewarned that Buell was in trouble in order to buy their bikes.
If more people liked Buell bikes and actually bought them in the past instead of just talking how great they are, then Buell would of sold more bikes and made the profit to run as an independent company apart from HD and remained in business.

If Buell was truly a successful company by itself, then they would be able to stay in business even if HD dropped them.
If a company like Buell needs to be backed up by another like HD in order to operate, then THAT is a good forewarning that business is not good.
Hmmm, what is a good example......ahhhh yes, General Motors backed up by the government.
GM cars got great reviews in the magazines too.

[gregrnel]

The HD market is grossly saturated and there are huge deals to be had on the used market. A lot of people who "thought" they wanted to be the cool, tough guy HD rider realized that bikes are dangerous and not for them. Then there's the HD population that lost their jobs and really couldn't afford one in the first place. HD hooked them with low financing, even to high credit risks with the "Screw it, Let's ride" as campaign. Much like the housing market, "You're screwed". This is a sign of a company in real trouble, I would unload any stock you have ASAP and cut your losses, HOG hasn't even come close to hitting bottom.

[DrDesmo]

The HD market is grossly saturated and there are huge deals to be had on the used market. A lot of people who "thought" they wanted to be the cool, tough guy HD rider realized that bikes are dangerous and not for them. Then there's the HD population that lost their jobs and really couldn't afford one in the first place. HD hooked them with low financing, even to high credit risks with the "Screw it, Let's ride" as campaign. Much like the housing market, "You're screwed". This is a sign of a company in real trouble, I would unload any stock you have ASAP and cut your losses, HOG hasn't even come close to hitting bottom.

http://brewcitybrawler.typepad.com/brew_city_brawler/2009/01/screw-it-lets-ride-is-not-a-strategy.html

Adam

[junior varsity]

You didn't get my point.  Nobody would of needed to be forewarned that Buell was in trouble in order to buy their bikes.
If more people liked Buell bikes and actually bought them in the past instead of just talking how great they are, then Buell would of sold more bikes and made the profit to run as an independent company apart from HD and remained in business.

If Buell was truly a successful company by itself, then they would be able to stay in business even if HD dropped them.
If a company like Buell needs to be backed up by another like HD in order to operate, then THAT is a good forewarning that business is not good.
Hmmm, what is a good example......ahhhh yes, General Motors backed up by the government.
GM cars got great reviews in the magazines too.

That's not how businesses work at all.
Buell was a tiny fledgling company. They need capital and resources, and distribution to get product to market. H-D provides this in exchange for ownership of company. Buell is now precluded from being their own company - when a titan buys your IP, you are no longer in control. Buell couldn't be its own company because it no longer owned its own IP. This isn't an example or forewarning that a business is not good.

Is Frito-Lay "not good"? Afterall, they are 'backed' by PepsiCo.
Is Anhauser-Bush 'not good'? (aside from the quality of the beer itself) - they have been bought out.

Its simple business that companies are bought. You undermine your own point by not refuting the production of new, successful models and the huge pull in AMA racing (that would predictably aid sales)

Unlike GM, there has been no frequent publications of a company that is faltering that indicate there are problems.

[Triple J]

In AMA GT2 the Ducati PS1000 runs against Suzuki SV650 bikes.  

In GT1 Ducati runs the 848 against the 600's.

Apples and oranges. The PS1000 is an air cooled bike running against water cooled ones.

The 848 running against 600s is merely the +/- 200 cc advantage given to twins (probably with weight restrictions as well). 200cc advantage is a far cry from a 525cc advantage.

You know all that though. 

[mitt]

You didn't get my point.  Nobody would of needed to be forewarned that Buell was in trouble in order to buy their bikes.
If more people liked Buell bikes and actually bought them in the past instead of just talking how great they are, then Buell would of sold more bikes and made the profit to run as an independent company apart from HD and remained in business.

Most of that reasoning is wrong.  If they were not making money on X units, it is doubtful that they would have made money on 2*X units per year either.  Also, how many more people would be needed to buy bikes to run it as independent - 100, 1000, 10,000, 100,000?

It is just a bad time for bike business, and mfg's are figuring out ways to streamline, and this is one way, to reduce model numbers.

mitt

[NorDog]

You didn't get my point.  Nobody would of needed to be forewarned that Buell was in trouble in order to buy their bikes.
If more people liked Buell bikes and actually bought them in the past instead of just talking how great they are, then Buell would of sold more bikes and made the profit to run as an independent company apart from HD and remained in business.

Except that HD basically OWNS Buell.  It's like owning an old shed in the back yard; I can either try to sell it or tear it down, depending on what I see as less trouble.  HD has decided it's less trouble to shutter Buell.

Besides, the comment of yours on which I commented (and ATO as well I think) was:

If you really liked Buell, you all would of bought one when they actually needed you as a customer."

You seem to sling snark at those non-Buell owners who like Buells and are sorry to see the company fold, but see this as an opportunity to finally own one.

The market place is what it is.

HD decides to shutter Buell based on the market place (and I am not convinced it's the wise choice; we are after all talking about the Harley-Davidson Motor Company).

I choose NOT to buy an 1125CR because I already have two bike payments and can't afford a third.  Not really a choice so much as a reality of my immediate personal market place.

In fact, in November of 2007 I WANTED to buy the 1125R when I test rode the S4RS, but the 1125R was not in showrooms yet, while that sweet S4RS was sitting there calling my name.

There are many reasons Buell aficianados haven't bought Buells.

Heck, I want a Corvette, a P51 Mustang, and a Brough Superior SS100.  Are my motives to be questioned just because I don't own these fine machines?  Are those same motives suspect simply because the misfortune of the Buell company and the impact of that misfortune on the marketplace may now make the 1125CR affordable to me?

No, of course not.

[bluemoco]

It is just a bad time for bike business, and mfg's are figuring out ways to streamline, and this is one way, to reduce model numbers.

This is absolutely true.  And, at some point in the future, H-D could 'resurrect' the Buell brand and resume selling Buell motorcycles. 

I need to go to my local H-D store and see these huge Buell discounts firsthand.