What loud pipes really say...

[NAKID]

Upon reviewing that, you are correct. However, any aftermarket exhaust only has to maintain the initial noise levels for one year or 6000km whichever comes first.

Also, it doesn't say anywhere that the exhaust system must have an EPA stamp to prove compliance.

Obviously if it says off road use only, that's one thing, but no requirement for an EPA stamp.

[speedevil]

Upon reviewing that, you are correct. However, any aftermarket exhaust only has to maintain the initial noise levels for one year or 6000km whichever comes first.

You're correct.  The noise limits only have to meet the requirements for a year or a certain number of miles.  I guess the EPA recognizes that mufflers that have a lot of miles or years don't work quite as well as a new one.  The EPA - common sense - that combination is almost scary.

Also, it doesn't say anywhere that the exhaust system must have an EPA stamp to prove compliance.

Obviously if it says off road use only, that's one thing, but no requirement for an EPA stamp.

The rules in this part say that exhausts manufactured for street motorcycles must be labeled according to CFR 205.169 and that they must meet the noise standards in CFR 205-166.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=25f534c376074c49c05154e0ce6209b4;rgn=div8;view=text;node=40%3A24.0.1.2.11.5.17.6;idno=40;cc=ecfr

CFR 205.169 talks about a permanent label that cannot be removed, that identifies the standard in effect, the make, model, and year of the bike.

If the EPA actually had the manpower to enforce these rules, aftermarket exhausts would be gone.  I don't know what the cost would be to certify an exhaust, but the rules read like it would need to be tested on every make, model, and year to be certified.  That would mean some large $$$.

[Goat_Herder]

I think there is a big difference between having loud pipes and having loud pipes and revving excessively.  If you have a set of after market racing pipes, great!  Be proud of them.  I am sure everybody on the board is envious.  But if you are the jackhole who bleeps and revvs like a brat who is dying for attention (good or bad), you have some issues.  I think that's what the original post is trying to say.  

Enjoy your bike responsively.  If you don't, you are giving the rest of us a bad name.  HD riders already ruined their reputation.  Let's NOT ruin ours.  

Cheers

[Mad Duc]

Let's now ruin ours.   

Me thinks you mean -not- instead of -now-.   

[Monster Dave]

People mostly notice me as they hear the sonic boom as I pass them on the highway. That, and my open clutch.

Um...don't you mean that "broken thingy" that's making all that "rattling commotion" like "something's going to fall off"....





There's such a fine line on this topic. There's people who cross it all the time, people who cross it some of the time, people who cross it once in a while, and people who get their undies tied in knots over it when they see it. While most of us use a simple thing called sense and common courtesy, others may choose to not exercise those things. I think that the underlying problem here (at least in part) is that people feel the threat and actual sanctioning of the government over the things that we do. This in turn makes it as sensitive of a topic as the debate over abortion law.

I know that some say that 100 db is too loud, but to be honest, I don't know what 100db sounds like. So I'll take a shot in the dark and say that I think that my exhaust is less because I've certainly heard much more from other bikes.

From my own personal experience, I have lost count at how many times I've seen a driver in the car lane next to me look over their shoulder or in the mirror to see what (I) was. They could hear me - that doesn't say much for accidents - because as we know they do happen. So I don't rely on that, but I like it.

Just ride safely and responsibly and for what it's worth, enjoy it while you can. 

[moto]

[Goat_Herder]

Me thinks you mean -not- instead of -now-.   

Good catch.  CORRECTED!

[NFG]

Everything MonsterDave said is what I was thinking, but more coherent. 

There's a huge grey area here.  Obviously there's no empirical data, but if people hear you, they are more likely to be aware of your existence, and less likely to drive into you.  No one's suggesting a loud exhaust is the be-all and end-all of safety, but I don't see how anyone can reasonably disagree that it works in your favour against inattentive drivers.  Every little bit helps.

In case anyone fears for my safety, I should mention I do not rely on the pipes to save me.  I've been a pedalbike rider for several decades and have enough bike sense to ride with traffic and stay out of harm's way.  I watch and I avoid.

I tried mounting the termis on the old pedalbike but it didn't have the desired effect.  =(

[Monster Dave]

Everything MonsterDave said is what I was thinking, but more coherent. 

Thanks! 

I tried mounting the termis on the old pedalbike but it didn't have the desired effect.  =(

I'm a cyclist....I had the mental picture....

[Statler]

I'm pretty convinced that it's how one rides not how loud the pipes actually are.   Even obnoxious open HD pipes don't have to be horrible if the rider leaves the light at a lower throttle opening when in front of all the yuppies dining outdoors at the cafe.

I seldom ride to go somewhere versus riding to ride, but on the rare occasion I'm in town I just adjust my riding to suit.   I got a wave and a thank you once for walking the bike away from the curb in front of a bistro where the tables were within feet of the back of the bike.   Could have blown their wine glasses over on startup, but why.  (ok...if they had been pricks for any reason while I was there it would have been fun to let the bike spit fuel into their mimosas, but....)   Short shift out of the area and then save the 11K shifts for when they are actually fun to do anyway.

I see real advantage in "riding invisible"  as in going fast but not looking like you are, quiet exhaust, etc.....I'm just not there myself on the exhaust side of things. (because I like it...and my bike runs so much happier without restrictive exhausts).

I also don't think that the decibel level of my bike makes one bit of difference to my safety.   Too many years with different bikes show zero difference for me personally, but perhaps that is because of different riding techniques in traffic/town.

[Triple J]

There's a huge grey area here.  Obviously there's no empirical data, but if people hear you, they are more likely to be aware of your existence, and less likely to drive into you.  No one's suggesting a loud exhaust is the be-all and end-all of safety, but I don't see how anyone can reasonably disagree that it works in your favour against inattentive drivers.  Every little bit helps.

I will disagree. I've had people come into my lane (in town and on freeway, at high and low speeds) while I was riding my M900 with Remus exhaust, 848 with Termis, and my Monstrada with essentially straight pipes (I've now re-fitted the "udder" because it was too loud for me). Inattentive drivers are just that...inattentive. A little extra exhaust noise doesn't do shit for them...they're morons!

I've also ridden a BMW 1200GS with stock exhaust. It was eerily quiet. Had very few instances of people cutting into me...despite my stealth like sound.

Like others have said, exhaust sound is mostly behind you.

From personal experience I think that the size and height of the bike makes the most amount of difference to people noticing you. My Monsters and 848 were low bikes...and people tried to kill me on them more often than when I was riding my Multistrada or GS, both of which are tall bikes with better lane presence. The 848 was particularly bad for not being seen, despite the very loud Termis.

I don't think exhaust does a single bit of good for your safety. Good riding techniques are really all that matters (although I like my High Viz A'stich jacket in dark/rainy conditions).

[Monster Dave]

I will disagree. I've had people come into my lane (in town and on freeway, at high and low speeds) while I was riding my M900 with Remus exhaust, 848 with Termis, and my Monstrada with essentially straight pipes (I've now re-fitted the "udder" because it was too loud for me). Inattentive drivers are just that...inattentive. A little extra exhaust noise doesn't do shit for them...they're morons!

I've also ridden a BMW 1200GS with stock exhaust. It was eerily quiet. Had very few instances of people cutting into me...despite my stealth like sound.

Like others have said, exhaust sound is mostly behind you.

From personal experience I think that the size and height of the bike makes the most amount of difference to people noticing you. My Monsters and 848 were low bikes...and people tried to kill me on them more often than when I was riding my Multistrada or GS, both of which are tall bikes with better lane presence. The 848 was particularly bad for not being seen, despite the very loud Termis.

I don't think exhaust does a single bit of good for your safety. Good riding techniques are really all that matters (although I like my High Viz A'stich jacket in dark/rainy conditions).

Like I said, and most people tend to agree - accidents can and do happen.

[Betty]

I admit that I quite enjoy these type of debates, but occasionally it gets a bit silly ... people form an opinion pretty quickly and stick to it regardless of the opposing argument. Just remember these are not absolutes we are dealing with. Sure your riding technique is your best defence and loud pipes are not but that doesn't mean that technique will save you every time and loud pipes will never save you ... although an individual's personal experiences may indicate otherwise.

But hey I'm happy to play along.

[Statler]

if you can actually notice your noise making a difference then technically you are likely in the wrong place from an ideal 'safe from cagers' perspective.    Street survival skills take time.   If you saw the guy/girl turn her head next to you from your exhaust, then you were in a bad spot...because the same placed car with windows up and stereo blasting wouldn't have heard you.   filtering, placement, speed differential from traffic, lane position, blind spot avoidance, protection from left turners across your lane, etc.etc.etc. take lots of attention....for new riders still spending lots of attention on bike control this is what often bites them.   even though not their fault...avoidable.

[kingbaby]

May we all go back to Daryls first post for a little zen time.  All this inganeerin tawk is givin' me a head akadee.  
I have the full Akrapovic kit on my 1098S, and it's F'n loud.  I have a habit of pulling up to the guys (sportbike or HD) that are sitting at the light blippin' the throttle and telling them I can fix their bike if it's having trouble idling.   Best part, I can.    

Try it...it's fun.  



ZARD - Ducati 1098 full kit racing

[ducpainter]

This thread is giving me a headache.

It's way louder than my bike.