What loud pipes really say...

[lawbreaker]

... Do what you want to your bike but be prepared to take personal responsibility for it.

 I ride in So Cal, ALOT.
I dont own a car....

My pipes are loud

So is my clutch

...YES it gets me noticed.. but not all the time- Thats where being attentive comes in.
some people may get pissed, then again so do i .

Embrace your inner Hooligan... F'em   

[EvilSteve]

This is where too loud is defined: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=11576efbd1e6af57f094961eb4da6246&rgn=div8&view=text&node=40:24.0.1.2.11.4.17.3&idno=40

The law also states that you cannot alter your exhaust system. It's illegal.

That's what I'm talking about right there, there's been no enforcement so people seem to think that it's all good. It's not. When the squeaky wheel (like the people in/near my Neighborhood who complain about the loud bikes down at Astoria park, these are allegedly the people who've triggered the draconian laws be drafted in NYC or at least given the person leading the charge the impetus) gets the oil, we all suffer.

Keep saying that noise is a subjective issue, it isn't. What's subjective is if you like the sound or not. What's objective is that there are specific laws that pertain to the legal volume of vehicle noise. If you're anything over that with anything other than a stock exhaust (even if it isn't stock actually) you're contributing to the problem.

[pennyrobber]

I think elderly women often wear too much overwhelming perfume. That crap should be outlawed.

[angler]

I think elderly women often wear too much overwhelming perfume. That crap should be outlawed.

Precisely my point.

Look I've heard the "few bad apples...." argument.  Whatever.  My focus is on personal responsibility and defending my ability to use aftermarket parts and have my moto sound how I want it.

I see evilsteve's point, however I would rather fight to have a few bad apples than have us all bowing to the nanny's in this world.  This is a very slippery slope.  If we give in we will see mandatory helmet laws.  Oops, that has already happened.  I mean we will have mandatory training wheels and rollover cages on our electric only motos in no time.

[KRJ]

   Most of the noise level laws are already in place, along with tampering with factory equipment, as a tag along from the EPA. A lot of it at the moment is each individual lawmakers grasp at increased revenue for their area, as this catches on the Feds will see this opportunity and increase their enforcement of the existing laws as well as new ones. A lot of people who never hear a loud noise embrace these new laws simply because it's in a 'green' direction. Most of these laws have nothing to do with actually offending anyone, simply a cash cow and a political tool. I say, set a reasonable dB level that most can agree on, use measuring devices, and try to get away with as much as You can!!   Oh wait... thats already happening        Being as politically incorrect as I am, I will do what I want until forced to change,It will happen, And I will fight beyond...RIDE ON

[EvilSteve]

I'm not advocating more laws here people. I hate the fact that NYC is trying to implement restrictive laws *only* on motorcycles. There are two reasons why this is happening in my estimation: 1. Motorcycles are actually loud & we have a bad wrap 2. we're a smaller group & therefore easier to target. Any law relating to noise should apply to all vehicles IMO. It's no secret that politicians have issues with bikes here and many other places. Why is that?

We can talk about our rights and freedom as much as we like but saying it doesn't make it so. We're not free to run whatever exhaust we want without consequences that's a fact that's backed by the law.

I"m not supporting a "nanny state" here, it sucks but what makes it harder to stop these laws going through are the few "bad apples" who feel that it's their right to run full race pipes or open pipes around build up areas. Does that mean I won't fight these stupid laws? Hell no! What it means is that I think we, as a community, can minimize the chances of crap laws being introduced if we exercise some restraint.

[KRJ]

  I agree, there is a time and place for everything, and personal responsibility is the key.I don't want to hear loud exhaust on anything when it's too loud, and even most tracks have adopted noise restrictions,I think as motorcyclists, We need to direct the law enforcement to the loud stereo playin' rap, that offends more than any well tuned bike out there!!.... I'm going to call the Gov'nor, and My Congressman, and tell them to get it right....

[motolocopat]

OK my apologies to the person singled out in my previous post and for pushing the limits of what is acceptable.
Like I stated to him though... don't take it personally... I could have done the same to ANY number of others that give up their lame excuses for having loud pipes.... I ease into MY neighborhood, I ride a gear high past the front of the Church, After a certain hour I ride quiet, I only let it rip in the country etc etc etc. It is real easy to punch holes in any of these with the basis being that somehow this person supposedly knows ALL.. where every nightshift person sleeps during the day, that there are no people in the country enjoying their peace and quiet, where all of the backs of churches are. The FACT IS you never know who is around back, or the other side of the fence or sitting in a deer blind in the field... must I go on for you to get the point?

Loud pipes does not make you faster on the bike, your skill, your brakes, and suspension allows you to do that. A free breathing engine does help but you hardly need to be running WITHOUT baffles to achieve that do you?
In fact doesn't a loud bike make you ride slower??
I mean you have to SLOW DOWN so as not to piss people off a good bit of the time ... it's
Loud pipes don’t make you faster, your skill, brakes, and suspension allows you to do that. A free breathing engine does help but you hardly need to be running WITHOUT baffles to achieve that do you? Doesn’t in fact a loud bike make you ride slower if you are even semi responsible?? Don’t you have to SLOW DOWN so as not to piss people off a good bit of the time? Seems it's another piece of flawed logic of the loud pipes save lives crowd. I know that a lot of you will say no, no it's not that the loud pipes saves lives it's because X, Y, Z reason. But in the end you are all in the same boat....... someone who is damaging MY SPORT. I don't like it and I will be vocal about it by trying to point out the error of your ways... If I do it in a pointed manner at times I sorry about that. But ..........sometimes to get a Jackasses attention you do have to hit him up side of the head!

I am an avid motorcyclist, I'm not a Footballer, basketballer, baseballer sort of guy.. not avidly at least. There are two things that I feel real strongly about as a motorcyclist.... they both have a strong and direct impact on MY SPORT and ours and FUTURE generations ability to enjoy it in the future. One is noise and the other is rider training/first bike subjects. I tend to be fairly opinionated about both... Noise because it is probably the largest threat there is to our sport. Rider training because a failure in this area is frequently fatal, probably killing more noobies than anything else. Least importantly in lives, but larger in numbers of people, are those that have to many close calls or take to big of a hit  financially when they drop that shiny new bike that they end up out of the sport before they ever "Get Into It"

There ARE people out there who would love to legislate us out of existence. I've watched over the years as Offroad Motorcyclist have lost hundreds of thousand of public use acrs to ride on. They have finally started wising uo in the last 4-8 years and quietend up their bikes.... you know the ones out in the country where no one is..... ofh except those people who really like their peace and quiet. I'm all for taking a stand right here and now.. we do for the most part have the LEGAL RIGHT to run a decently performing baffled exhaust that both allows a motohead to enjoy a strong running bike/car while listening to the music... the her and now does not generally allow the use of straight pipes or unbaffled  "Race Systems".

MY SPORT.... YES it is my sport, and hopefully it is your sport as well.  As for me, seeing as how I have about another 15-20 years of riding I'm pretty sure that I will be able to tough it out no matter what happens regarding to  future legislation that will erode our rights to ride.  But how about my children and grandkids..... or yours?
I don't take my time to try and write out a lengthy response to the same old argument just because I find it amusing OR because the implementation of more regulations will have any great effect on me, I do it because I'd like future generations to be able to enjoy the same thrills of the sport as I have.

The real question is... IS IT YOUR SPORT as well?
If it truly is then you ought to be willing to sacrifice a few decibels on your exhaust in order to help preserve it.

[lawbreaker]

Do they have the same arguments/discussions on the 'American V-twin" forum?

Just curious........ those f'ers are loud....and slow.... and largly posers (the weekend warriors that I see).

- Naturally i'm just trying to stir the pot  

[Betty]

... snipped the lot ...

I don't mean to single you out, but ... who am I kidding ... or course I mean to single you out.

I've gotta love the fact that you can claim the moral ground with regard to noise but in the next paragraph encourage or advocate speeding (OK technically you said 'ride faster'). Morally conflicted at all?

You then go on to talk about your passion of rider training and safety but refer to riding as a sport. By any definition I have seen sport if competitive in nature ... competitive and safe ... on the street ... sound like more conflict.

If the 'community' is going to have an argument on any of these things we would want to make sure our logic is actually logical.

[psycledelic]

And therein lies the rub of all this talk of moralism.   It won't end if we don't make it end.  Most second hand smoke research is rubbish, really.  However, society has decided primarily on moral grounds to come down hard on smoking. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone in the world took personal responsibility and consideration for others to heart?  YES. The trouble is many don't.  Is the answer in increasing the reach of the nanny state?  NO!  Do we have a personal responsibility to behave in a way in line with social norms?  Perhaps, but there are limits.  Sometimes social norms are bogus.  I feel limits based on things as subjective as morality should NOT be put in place by government.  If there is a physical safety noise limit, then by all means codify it in a law and enforce it.  I believe we also have a personal responsibility to stand up for things we like, even if it pisses some people off.

Damn Dangler, That's deep.  I wasn't going anywhere near the "Stop givin' my kids lung cancer" soapbox.  I was more on the side of "It smells like ass and it makes my food taste bad".  But hey, if the resturant lets them do it, then light'em up if that helps them enjoy their meal.  Who am I to tell them to stop?
Same way I feel about this exhaust noise debate.

We can talk about our rights and freedom as much as we like but saying it doesn't make it so. We're not free to run whatever exhaust we want without consequences that's a fact that's backed by the law.

If the yearly inspection on my bike, from a state licensed inspector, says that it is OK, then I am not going to loose any sleep over it.  In that same manner, if they ever tell me to tone it down, then I will tone it down.  That has yet to happen with either my previous opened Termignoni system or my current BoomTubelet"s.  

Loud pipes does not make you faster on the bike, your skill, your brakes, and suspension allows you to do that. A free breathing engine does help but you hardly need to be running WITHOUT baffles to achieve that do you?
In fact doesn't a loud bike make you ride slower??
I mean you have to SLOW DOWN so as not to piss people off a good bit of the time ... it's
Loud pipes don’t make you faster, your skill, brakes, and suspension allows you to do that. A free breathing engine does help but you hardly need to be running WITHOUT baffles to achieve that do you? Doesn’t in fact a loud bike make you ride slower if you are even semi responsible?? Don’t you have to SLOW DOWN so as not to piss people off a good bit of the time? Seems it's another piece of flawed logic of the loud pipes save lives crowd. I know that a lot of you will say no, no it's not that the loud pipes saves lives it's because X, Y, Z reason. But in the end you are all in the same boat....... someone who is damaging MY SPORT. I don't like it and I will be vocal about it by trying to point out the error of your ways... If I do it in a pointed manner at times I sorry about that. But ..........sometimes to get a Jackasses attention you do have to hit him up side of the head!

 
First off, I agree with you in that the loud exhaust saves lives logic is flawed.  Not saying that it hasn't worked for someone, somewhere before, but not something I would ever consider a safety feature.  I also agree that loud pipes don't make you faster, but they don't make you slower either.  And yes, I am a responsible rider.  Do I slow down in the neighborhood to keep from pissing people off?  No.  I slow down in the neighborhood to keep from running over little Johnny and/or his puppy.  Do I slow down in front of the police station to keep from getting a noise ordinance violation?  Nope.  I slow down to keep from getting a speeding ticket.  I do make attempt to keep the rumbling to a minimum at odd hours or around events like weddings, funerals, etc.  Is that to keep from pissing people off.  No.  Just out of respect.  Maybe I just live in a really good part of the US, but if my bike is pissing so many people off, they sure don't seem to express it.  
Dude, I am not damaging YOUR SPORT.  You are just being to uptight to fully enjoy it.  If you are so against loud bikes, then just let us Jackasses bring about tougher exhaust regulations on ourselves.  If your bike is quiet, it won't affect you anyway.

The real question is... IS IT YOUR SPORT as well?
If it truly is then you ought to be willing to sacrifice a few decibels on your exhaust in order to help preserve it.

It's our sport (and my primary means of transportation)
And you ought be willing to accept that other people might not (and don't have to) see things the way you do.  No matter how many times you hit them upside the head.  (Jackasses do tend to be stubborn animals).
And the next time you "let it rip" in the country, keep it within the speed limit cause speeding is also illegal and damaging to our sport.

[psycledelic]

What? No faith in the goodness of mankind?  I feel sure that this thread will turn back into a discussion of small peni "shortly". 

Uh, maybe not!

[EvilSteve]

If the yearly inspection on my bike, from a state licensed inspector, says that it is OK, then I am not going to loose any sleep over it.  In that same manner, if they ever tell me to tone it down, then I will tone it down.  That has yet to happen with either my previous opened Termignoni system or my current BoomTubelet"s.

I can see what you're saying but I don't think waving your inspection sticker around (metaphorically! ) is going to stop you getting a ticket or stop your loud pipes from annoying people (if in fact they are).

This is one of my other frustrations on the creation of new laws relating to noisy bikes. There are already laws in place and there are already methods to enforce these laws but because the system is broken and because people keep whining about noise, politicians are feeling pressured to come up with a band aid. In reality the solution should be that noise is checked at inspection and enforced there. Doesn't stop people from pulling that exhaust after inspection however.

Honestly, I feel like the argument I'm putting forward is pretty simple. I've yet to see a counter argument which isn't based on people's rights or semantically arguing about what's loud or what's not. It's not your right and too loud is defined in EPA laws.

Here's a very simple example: try running your stock exhaust, if you really can't deal with it, instead of putting on open or race pipes @ 102db, put the baffles in & run them @ 90db. The decibel scale is exponential remember, there's a big difference there.

I know my posts here are getting annoying to some so I'm going to stop now.

[Monster Dave]

Wow, I'm beside myself that this thread has continued on a crash course and on and on and on and on.....


This debating could give a guy a real headache!!! 

[Goat_Herder]

I guess the loud pipe discussion hit a nerve for some...   just like H-D riders with the South Park cartoon.  Good times.