[RANT] Military Sportbike Riders Course

[Popeye the Sailor]

Jeez, and they let people like Joel buy 1098s. Must be infuriating 

[Scotzman]

That's the thing. No stipulations on miles ridden, years of experience, or age. Overall poorly executed instruction...

Just like 90% of the revisions...Knee Jerk.

[DRKWNG]

Just like 90% of the revisions...Knee Jerk.

You beat me to it.

[teddy037.2]

yeah, the classification is pretty lame, esp where the monsters do kind of fall into a grey area...  of course, given the explanation of, "it's a ducati" what would happen if you rode an indiana? 

which reminds me, I gotta sign for for that class at some point

[CMDRDAVE]

given the explanation of, "it's a ducati" what would happen if you rode an indiana? 

When I have to take it again in a year and a half, I'm gonna bring the '66 Sebring 350.  All 25 HP of it.  The foot position is directly underneath the rider, just like the monster, must be a sportbike.

[CMDRDAVE]

That's the thing. No stipulations on miles ridden, years of experience, or age. Overall poorly executed instruction...

Must be the same guys that worked on TF uniform.

[Scotzman]

Either way, all riders have to take an advanced rider course and the MSRC is a lot more than the ERC. MSRC goes over decreasing radius', body positions, trail braking, and there's no grade. Just go and ride.

The ERC is pretty much like the BRC only a little faster and the BRC was boring.

[vw151]

I appreciate the OP's frustration..... however.

I think there are some things to consider.

1.  A monster is a sport bike, there is no grey area

look at that, can a harley do that?  It may not be a superbike but it'd definitely a sport bike.  I would also as far as saying that ever bike ducati makes IS a sport bike.  I've seen multistradas and ST3s on the track dragging knees.  After all ducati is a bike manufacturer that more or less sells their racing heritage.  What do you expect.

2.  The Navy essentially owns you.  They take you on as an investment and if something is statistically causing issues where their investment is not usefull then I can understand them taking action.  The fatalities are bad enough, but consider how many soldiers are probably injured and costing health care money and time off work.  More education is always better

3.  If sport bikes are statistically the problem, then that is who they are going to work with.  If all the Harley riders were crashing and the sport bike guys were not then they'd be making the Harley style bike riders do something (like maybe work on not drinking while riding or something).  I don't think this has to do with the type of bike so much as the type of rider that rides the type of bike, but that is another discussion

4.  I completely agree that track riding likely far exceeds any safety course you are going to take and you are probably the exception to this rule as you likely know how to handle your sport bikes

5.  Why would the Navy go out of their way to make exceptions for skilled riders.   They are just leaving themselves open to loopholes and incurring a higher cost of organizing this information for your conveinience.  It's not like they are asking you to do something bad for yourself either.  

So although, the reaction is kneejerk and may be on the harsh side, I can totally see where they are coming from.  They put thousands of dollars into each soldier and turn around and see many of them getting killed on these bikes.  I think, if nothing else, from a perception standpoint they have to do something.  It looks bad!  Not to mention no one likes to hear about people getting killed.  

One of my cop friends has a friend that fits perfectly into this category.  Bought an R1 for his first bike, got in a wreck in the first 300 miles and now doesn't ride.  The idiot didn't take a safety course and basically assumed he could just get on a liter bike and be an awesome rider right out of the gate because he rode dirt bikes when he was a kid.  The only way to get this guy educated would be to force him.  

So basically, you are suffering because your peers are not smart riders and I do sympathize with the huge inconvienience but honestly I can't see a better way for the Navy to deal with it and I do think this serves the greater good.  

[DRKWNG]

1.  A monster is a sport bike, there is no grey area

look at that, can a harley do that?  It may not be a superbike but it'd definitely a sport bike.  I would also as far as saying that ever bike ducati makes IS a sport bike.  I've seen multistradas and ST3s on the track dragging knees.  After all ducati is a bike manufacturer that more or less sells their racing heritage.  What do you expect.

Very poor logic with this one.  Not every Ducati is a sport bike.  As Teddy pointed out, have you ever seen an Indiana?  Sure, they haven't made them in years but they are still out there.  Also, what about the older Elephants?  They are still going; a Navy buddy of mine back on the main-land has two.  Beyond that, a Monster really isn't a true sports bike.  Call it what you will, but the most apt description would probably be sporty standard.  Sure you can take it around a track, but unlike a true sport bike, that is not its primary purpose.  And as far as the photo goes, I have seen people on Goldwings get a knee down, does that make their scoot a sport bike too?

[teddy037.2]

1.  A monster is a sport bike, there is no grey area

#2 Nothing in the instruction (OPNAVINST 5100.12G) defines what a "Sport Bike" is.  My insurance company considers it a standard.

KBB also has the monster listed under "standard/cruiser"

putting rearsets on a sportster would alter the foot position, thus making it a 'sport bike' if ergos are the only criteria.

I have seen people on Goldwings get a knee down, does that make their scoot a sport bike too?

must find video from deal's gap...

oh, and I never get tired of this picture:


when it's all said and done, we still gotta comply... but it is certainly rant-worthy

[Juan]

H.D Salute  military




http://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-news/harley-davidson-and-marisa-miller-salute-the-us-military-ar81180.html

[vw151]

Very poor logic with this one.  Not every Ducati is a sport bike.  As Teddy pointed out, have you ever seen an Indiana?  Sure, they haven't made them in years but they are still out there.  Also, what about the older Elephants?  They are still going; a Navy buddy of mine back on the main-land has two.  Beyond that, a Monster really isn't a true sports bike.  Call it what you will, but the most apt description would probably be sporty standard.  Sure you can take it around a track, but unlike a true sport bike, that is not its primary purpose.  And as far as the photo goes, I have seen people on Goldwings get a knee down, does that make their scoot a sport bike too?

Point taken, there are some that are not sport bikes I wasn't considering the very old bikes, but I still say all of the modern ducatis, IE anything sold right now is a sport bike from them.  A monster is definitely a sport bike IMO.  It's not a "superbike" but it's a sport bike.  A goldwing is a sport touring bike. 

How to define it?  Well I guess we could argue all day about it, but the foot position, the type of suspension, the brakes, the motor, the light weight, the tires.   The wheels.  Most of the components on my s2r1000 are superbike bolt ons or very similar.  It just doesn't have fairings and it has straight bars and the geometry is slightly different.  People not only track monsters they race them professionally.  Not as often as super bikes but you do see it.  I saw it at Mid-OH for the AMA stuff this year. 

OK sure, harley's are raced as well but I really think there is still a major difference between all modern ducatis and the standard bikes or cruisers.  I really think the argument is more that a monster is not a superbike but is a sport bike.   

[Scotzman]

There's only three categories MSF uses for motorcycles: Sport, cruiser, and dirt. Monsters aren't cruisers in the sense of harleys, victory's, etc and by default fall under sport.

Again, what it boils down to is everyone has to take one of the two courses. Harleys, goldwings, dual sports have to take the ERC and any other sporty type bike will take the MSRC.

[DesmoDiva]

Do you know who's teaching the required course??

Lee Parks has been doing the training course for the Marines and is set to start with the Air Force;  maybe he'll be teaching the Navy course as well. 

If you go in with an open mind you may actually learn something.   [moto]

[Monster Dave]

Chris,

I can completely understand your feelings about this and I'm sure that they are infuriated further by the fact that your abilities as a licensed rider haven't been tested nor are you able to attending testing - so you've been cut off cold turkey. I can see that it must feel like you've (and other riders in your same position) are being singled out. That's very clear.

I agree that you are considered an investment to the military, and thus the US govt does have a stake in your safety, buuuut I don't agree in the method for which they have sanctioned your legal and licensed citizen freedom to ride off base. The flip side to that is that (if I understand it correctly) this is the gray area where military jurisdiction can overrule your civil rights granted by local, and state govt - ie your state endorsement. 

So, while I sympathize with you, hope that Diva is right and that you can take the course with Lee Parks school - it's really a great experience any way you look at it  - aaaaannd it's winter - so at least you're not stuck unable to ride during the best time of the year.

Good luck - hope you pass - just between you and I, I won't tell anyone that you've only been riding for 3 weeks and that you like to ride in shorts, flip-flops, and a tank top that says "GO NAVY" written in black Sharpie marker on the back.