1000cc in 2012

[Triple J]

http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Feb/120223d.htm

Ago chimes in....

Seems to me Ago is forgetting the addition of the CRT bikes. Hard to have them with 800cc motors since no one makes one.

[gm2]

there easily could be an 800cc CRT bike, if one of the OEMs wanted to sell one to a team

[zooom]

Ago hasn't turned a wheel in anger in far too long and fears losing notoriety due to a lack of a twitter account or something that the younger generation uses and therefore is looking to churn the fire for to keep people noticing him by using the media any way he can...


the "show" as it were pretty much died with the 990's because the 800's dictated the new parameter of 1 race line in order to finish a race in the fastest way possible....I think Ago needs to ride an 800 bike like King Kenny did in order to get a complete idea

[Triple J]

there easily could be an 800cc CRT bike, if one of the OEMs wanted to sell one to a team

Don't the CRT motors need to be production based, or is that just the idea and not an actual requirement? Either way, several manufacturers have 1000cc motors available, whereas they'd have to develop a new 800cc one.

[derby]

Don't the CRT motors need to be production based...

nope.

...or is that just the idea and not an actual requirement? Either way, several manufacturers have 1000cc motors available, whereas they'd have to develop a new 800cc one.

yup.

[gm2]

the rule book for CRTs is actually very short.  1000cc max, whatever bore/stroke, prototype chassis, and you have to own the bike.  can't be leased.  nor can it be factory supported; no engineers on 'loan', etc..

says nothing about prototype engines.  but it's a self-reinforcing non rule: if any OEM sold a prototype/satellite bike to a CRT team, they effectively just gave away all their engineering secrets.  that thing is going to be Claimed in a heartbeat.  so.. production cases are used.  no secret sauce there.  then the gresini, aspar, etc mechanics go to work on them making them mega versions.

it's not like the Aprilia RSV CRT bike is just an RSV4 engine in a prototype chassis.  it's a very hot-rodded RSV4 engine.

the CRT rule book is also very clever in that CRT status can be revoked.  if carmelo et al decide you are getting factory support/you're really just a factory team in hiding, they revoke your CRT status.  that means you are limited to 21 liters of fuel instead of 24 (?) and you are limited to 6 engines, rather than 9.  so if mid-year they decide the ART CRT bike is really just an Aprilia MotoGP machine, it's not like those teams are suddenly out.  they just have to use less fuel and fewer engines.  but then the bikes can't be Claimed, either...  clever.  i halfway wonder if Aprilia is planning on this.

this will all mash together even more next year when everyone is subject to rev limits and has to use a spec ECU.  carmelo aint no dummy.

[fastwin]

Why doesn't Aprilla just build a prototype and race it themselves? All the juggling/smoke and mirrors to pretend to be a CRT just for the extra fuel and 3 more motors? And why do the factories insist on leasing their bikes instead of just selling them to teams like Yamaha and Honda did years ago in the old 2 stroke days?

[desmoquattro]

Why doesn't Aprilla just build a prototype and race it themselves? All the juggling/smoke and mirrors to pretend to be a CRT just for the extra fuel and 3 more motors?

Probably cost, no? It's much cheaper to hot rod an RSV4 motor than it is to build a prototype.

[zooom]

Why doesn't Aprilla just build a prototype and race it themselves? All the juggling/smoke and mirrors to pretend to be a CRT just for the extra fuel and 3 more motors?  

I think it is their idea of how to get back into MotoGP cheaply....slide through the door as it were...because I think the factory teams pay a higher fee to Dorna for to race than the Satelite's or CRT's...specially since Carmelo was subsidizing the Satelites to a degree I think IIRC...

 And why do the factories insist on leasing their bikes instead of just selling them to teams like Yamaha and Honda did years ago in the old 2 stroke days?

okay...lets talk hypothetically using LCR...Honda sells LCR their motors for the year...couple things can happen...LCR can do hot tuning themselves if they had the resources and kick the factories ass and they don't have to give the factory shit at the end....so the factory gets no feedback or technological information and loses control of what culminates and can potentially get their butt kicked in the process....the other thing that could happen is that at the end of the year, LCR doesn't like how they were treated or the deal they were offered by Honda and say Yamaha wants to get a look at their technology and says..Hey LCR...We'll sell you your motors for the coming year at 10% less than Honda and we want you to turn over your Honda motors from last year to us....technology gets out of the factories control real quick and games get played and the racing gets screwed....

[Raux]

the rule book for CRTs is actually very short.  1000cc max, whatever bore/stroke, prototype chassis

i think they still have the bore limit.
if not i would like to see a superquadrata 1000

[gm2]

i think they still have the bore limit.
if not i would like to see a superquadrata 1000

they do.  sorry, wasn't clear: 'whatever' meant whatever the numbers are, i don't recall at the moment.

[fastwin]

zoom, I don't think the racing gets "screwed", it could just as easily get better. Spy vs spy ala MAD magazine!

[zooom]

zoom, I don't think the racing gets "screwed", it could just as easily get better. Spy vs spy ala MAD magazine!

I get where you are going...and don't get me wrong...when I say racing gets screwed...I mean that "the show" as it were gets boiled down to less that differentiates the machinery and becomes a procession or something less than entertaining to watch....

[MadDuck]

..I mean that "the show" as it were gets boiled down to less that differentiates the machinery and becomes a procession or something less than entertaining to watch....

Which is........ almost exactly........where it's been at for a while.

I say put a weight limit on them. Put a displacement limit on them. That's it. Run whatever electronics you want. Run whatever tires you want. Turn them loose.

Or, no electronics, which would be even more entertaining.

[Jester]

 Run whatever tires you want.

Personally I think this would even up the playing field more than anything else.  You should be allowed to find the race tires that work the best for your bike, not the bike that works the best for the race tires.  Bring back Michelin and the overnight specials as far as I'm concerned.