1000cc in 2012

[zooom]

When has there ever been small budget giant killers? Ducati won a MotoGP world championship, and they're a small company, but small budget and MotoGP racing are not terms that co-exist in the same world, not if you want to be competative.

back in the 500 era and even a little bit in the 990 era...a satelite small guy company had a chance to be competitive due to the machine being less of a computer and more of a machine guided by the rider/pilot...so yes, there were giant killers way back when...but nowadays....the technology is soooo proprietary than if you don't have someone able to adapt and write code of the proper format for the bike based on the rider feedback...you are sunk and that to me is half the issue with GP that the spec ECU is theorized to possibly fix/replace....whether it will or not is a horse of a different color entirely...

The technology is being developed because it's what these companies do. Honda has developed a lot of thechnology that has trickeled to street bikes that wasn't introduced in MotoGP. Actually most of that technology was developed for automotive use and then adapted to bikes afterward.
That R&D money could be spent in WSBK too and with the same reults that would transfer to street bike applications as well if not better.

Honda had developed some things...for sure...but most of those things were under a guise of when you could make a small production of minimal machines for public sale and call it homologated...and while V-Tec technology you are refferring to developed in cars was applied on various things like the VFR800 streetbike or the CVT transmission that is in the new Honda Shamu VFR1200 for example....these are nothing like the technologies that are being developed by the bike divisions on GP racing that could be applied....

example...before the VFR1200 Shamu was released/revealed...the rumor mill was rife with speculation that it would be the most awaited and wanted piece of technology that Honda could have done...the RC211V powerplant enlarged and put into a HyperSportTourer to punch down the Kawi 1400 and the 'Busa and do so with style and grace....instead...we got Shamu...bad choice by Honda...and it would have sold and been VERY marketable....

in the end, MotoGP is the testbed...not WSBK, because WSBK has very regimented restrictions on using a production based motor and frame...and the rules have been changed over the years to lean more and more into keeping it that way...look at the Ape and rules that came about to keep them from changing the motor to the gear driven cam set-up for example...so as to keep it production based and not a prototype series...

[duccarlos]

In the end... I was right, as always.

[Triple J]

The differences are very clear, but the point you seem to be making is that the fact that a MotoGP bike isn't offered for sale makes it a prototype, and that's not the case. "One off" bikes and things that NEVER see the light of day are really prototypes. MotoGP are extremely sophiscated test beds, but true prototype as DORNA would have us believe is mis-labeling them.
Prototype: "one of the first units manufactured of a product, which is tested so that the design can be changed if necessary before the product is manufactured commercially."
Privateer teams in racing are another grey area.
Checca's team is technically a "privateer team" but watcha  WSBK broadcast and the same guys that are at a MotoGP race are in his pit box.

So by your logic F1 cars aren't prototype either since they aren't the first test unit of a product destined to be manufacured commercially?

Some privateer teams have factory support. So what. The fact remains, you can buy a factory race prepped production bike. No one can buy a current GP bike...the best you can do is lease one.

[fastwin]

In the end... I was right, as always.

Hey... that's my line! At least that's what I say to the wifely unit.

[Speeddog]

Hey... that's my line! At least that's what I say to the wifely unit.

And it gets you the same mileage there, as he got here. 

[ducpainter]

And it gets you the same mileage there, as he got here. 

It's a curse...

[wantingaduc]

So by your logic F1 cars aren't prototype either since they aren't the first test unit of a product destined to be manufactured commercially?

Actually I don't.
They are also "experimental" test beds for new technologies and materials, but not true prototypes.
But you're right, arguing semantics is pointless.

It all boils down to the fact that while MotoGP bikes are undoubtedly cool and great to watch, when the races are close, WSBK has offered better racing in ALL of it's classes then MotoGP.
I don't have the answers to how to make it better, if I did I'd be running DORNA, not posting here.

I would venture to say that watching the top 8 guys in MotoGP battle for the podium on WSBK bikes would be just as cool.
Who wouldn't want to see Rossi on the Panigale and Biaggi on the Aprilla battling again. 
I know I was always on the edge of my seat watching Bayliss and Haga.

jimi

[Triple J]

It all boils down to the fact that while MotoGP bikes are undoubtedly cool and great to watch, when the races are close, WSBK has offered better racing in ALL of it's classes then MotoGP.
I don't have the answers to how to make it better, if I did I'd be running DORNA, not posting here.

I would venture to say that watching the top 8 guys in MotoGP battle for the podium on WSBK bikes would be just as cool.
Who wouldn't want to see Rossi on the Panigale and Biaggi on the Aprilla battling again. 
I know I was always on the edge of my seat watching Bayliss and Haga.

Agreed. WSBK has had better competition in general over the last few years..at least for the top levels. The lower MotoGP levels have also been good though...Moto2 is always a madhouse!

I also agree that it would be just as cool to see the top riders on WSBKs as on GP bikes.

[gm2]

The lower MotoGP levels have also been good though...Moto2 is always a madhouse!

...this statement supports the direction carmelo is going for GP....

[zooom]

http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Mar/120322po.htm

CEII amusing and on point as always...

[gm2]

maybe/probablys for 2013+

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/03/25/motogp_bikes_to_go_to_5_engines_per_seas.html

[ducpainter]

maybe/probablys for 2013+

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/03/25/motogp_bikes_to_go_to_5_engines_per_seas.html

I don't like it one bit.

[Triple J]

I don't get a rev limit as low as 15,000 or 14,500...even 16,000. Doesn't F1 have a limit of 18,000? If it's in the realm of production bikes, then what is the point of developing a new engine specific to GP? Ducati is the only one that would benefit from the new motor since they don't make a production 4, and the GP rules don't allow an increase in displacement for twins (I think, Derby will correct me if I'm wrong  )...everyone else could just use production motors. 

Might as well use the Moto2 formula at that point.

[zarn02]

Might as well use the Moto2 formula at that point.

I think that's the idea. Transitioning from MotoGP to a CRT-based "Moto1."

It'd be more honest, and ultimately less expensive for the factories if they'd just say "Hey, this is a transitional period, so by 2014 be ready to shove a production motor into some kind of chassis, 'cause that's what we're doing now."

Keep everybody from unloading a dump truck full of cash on pseudo-prototype machines in the meantime.

[Jester]

Why would the factories have any interest in participating in Moto1?  You might as well dump all your efforts into WSBK at that point, since technology development would mean more to them there than a "Moto1" formula.  Right now, technology trickles from MotoGP to street bikes, aka WSBK.  If you do a similar formula to Moto2, then forget it.  The factories will use WSBK as their test beds and leave the GP championship for good.